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Does college matter?

Brightfuture_1

Your son wants to play in a band. You think he should be an engineer. You're majoring in bioinformatics because your parents told you it was a good career choice, but you hate it. You love to write code, but now your parents are telling you "it's a bad move, what with outsourcing and all..." You spent your first two years of college maintaining an inhuman blood alcohol level, when it hits you--you've taken out loans to pay for this drinking.

We've all accepted that a college degree == $. (Ignoring Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, of course.) College means higher lifetime earnings, and there's plenty of research to back that up. On the other hand, we've also learned that there's scientific evidence that money doesn't mean happiness (assuming you're over the baseline level of poverty). So if there's almost no correlation between money and happiness, but college means more money... where's real happiness in all that?

I've watched the wildly conflicting comments on the future of IT/programming as a profession between Dori Smith on "don't do it" and Robert Scoble on how "Microsoft can't find enough programmers".
But I'm far less interested in whether majoring in a high-tech field is a good idea today than I am in whether the question even matters. The average education in computer science, engineering, and even medicine is partly obsolete within 18 months. Some weird variant of Moore's law I guess. The conventional wisdom says that the specifics of what you learn are much less important than the fact that you're learning the fundamentals, and you're learning to learn--things you'll need to maintain your skills and knowledge in a quickly changing world.

The problem is, you virtually never hear a student say that. It's always the parents or someone speaking on behalf of the educational system. When was the last time you honestly heard (and believed) an actual current college student claim that the true benefit of their formal college education is in learning to be a lifelong learner? That's just bulls***.
With very few exceptions, college in the US is more about drinking than it is about deep learning.

Others claim that the benefit of a college degree is really more about socialization and independence. I've heard reasonably smart adults say, with all sincerity, that spending $80,000 so little Suzy could learn to live on her own was worth it. I think there are a thousand different, and often better, ways to achieve that. Suzy could join the peace corp, for example, or go on one of those "learning vacations" where you do an archealogical dig. Hell, just a three-month long trip through Europe with a couple friends and a rail pass (or, as a friend of mine did, a bike trip across Turkey) is certainly going to do more for socialization and independence than a traditional college environment, and at a tiny fraction of the cost.

The real curiosity, for me and others, is why we spend so much time railing against the decline in public schools for K-12 in the US, while higher education practically gets a free pass. The only major complaints you hear are about the rising costs, when to me--that may be the least of it.

In Declining by Degrees, a PBS documentary and book, one of the central questions is about why we aren't looking more closely at what really happens between admission and graduation. Or I should say, looking at what doesn't happen. From the intro:

"The decline in the quality of American undergraduate education has not yet become a major public issue. Americans may be cynical about their public institutions and leaders, but their skepticisim does not extend to the nature and content of a college education."

"... the result of this mentality (we are resisting the temptation to label it "mental illness") is graduates who are narrowly educated--and often are "trained" for work in fields that will have changed before the ink on their diplomas is dry. Those graduates have scant understanding of civic responsibilities or of the possibilities of life beyond work. Accumulating a sufficient number of courses and credit hours to earn a college degree is, in the public mind, synomous with being educated. But having a diploma bears little resemblance to being educated. "Higher" education has been lowered."

So here we have a pile of issues:

* Does it still make sense to major in a high-tech field? (and the offshoots I didn't mention about whether gender makes a difference)

* Does it really matter what you major in, or is the benefit of college something beyond the actual field of study?

* If college = money, but money != happiness, what does that mean with respect to a college degree?

* Does it still make sense to go to college... at all?

But I think the biggest question of all is something entirely different:

Where does passion fit into this equation?

Everything I hear about is whether a kid -- male or female -- should pursue this field or that field, what the long-term career prospects are, etc. I almost never hear much discussion about whether it matters if they have a passion for. It's true that sometimes college is the best way for them to discover their passion, but I've seen way too many young people traumatized by the thought of telling their parents that after three years of pre-med, they're switching to something like... ornamental horticulture (a big area of study at my alma mater, Cal Poly SLO).

The reason this matters to me now is because I'm right in the middle of it. I've been watching Dori with some envy... going on visits with her son to check out prospective colleges, talking about application forms, entrance exams, all that stuff I naturally assumed I'd be doing when my daughter Skyler turned 16 or 17. The older she got, the better she did in school, and the brighter her teachers found her to be... the more certain I was that she'd follow "the natural path" of the countdown to college that starts somewhere around 10th grade.

But it didn't work out that way. Skyler, it seems, could not care less for conventional wisdom, what her friends do, what the numbers say, and most especially--what her mom might think. Skyler believes that life's too short to spend that many years on something you don't love.

So she decided to just work for a while until she figures something out. And then a few weeks ago, she announced the discovery that Boulder is home to a world-class vegetarian cooking school that in addition to cooking classes, includes courses in professional development ranging from creating a business plan for a restaurant, to starting a personal chef business.

Vegetarian cooking is her passion. She believes in it, she loves it, she takes great pleasure in it. She evangelizes it to others. What horrifies me is that even though I knew she felt this way, it never occurred to me that this was something she might consider instead of college. But she got me with this one:

"Mom, your degree was exercise physiology. You spent your first five years out of college as a glorified aerobic instructor. Then you taught yourself programming, took a few night classes at UCLA, and made a huge career switch into computers, and found you loved it. You have your own computer book series. Yet you told me you had just a single computer class in college, and you hated it. So... tell me again why college was so great for you?"

And then the kicker:

"I have no idea if I'll ever open a restaurant or develop this into a professional career, but whatever investment I make in this will serve me and make me happy for the rest of my life. I'll be using what I learn here in my personal life, almost every day, regardless of my career. How many people can say that about 90% of what they learned in college?"

The part I still have to get over is that feeling of a missed opportunity. Of unfulfilled potential (too many Microsoft ads?). This was a straight-A kid. One far brighter at 12 than I'll ever be. One of those about whom people say, "She could succeed at anything she wants." yet what we all secretly meant was, "She could succeed at anything we think she should want."

Lucky for her, she learned at a much earlier age that passion matters. That money is far less important than joy (and that money doesn't buy joy). And that whatever decision she makes now, does not determine the rest of her life. She understands that the chances of anyone having a single career for life -- or even a decade -- are asymptotically approaching zero. And that nothing -- not finances (or lack of) or gender or age -- will stand in her way if she decides to learn something. And if what she wants to learn at some point in the future is best studied in a formal higher education environment, there's nothing to stop her from going to college then.

Still, I look longingly at the cute Target dorm furniture and think, "maybe one day..." Then I hear what my friends are paying in college tuition, and snap out of it.

I'm no longer convinced that we should assume a traditional four-year college should be the automatic default for all high school grads, esepcially given the state of these institutions today. And I seriously wish people would stop looking at me with pity and concern, shaking their head when they realize Skyler ("but she always seemed so bright...") isn't going to a "real" college. Wake up and smell the 21st century...

Posted by Kathy on July 14, 2005 | Permalink

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Comments

For some, college is an opportunity to connect with a group of people and some of the connections last a lifetime. Not to many for me, but for me college was four years of experimenting and learning about state of the art technology (which would have been inaccessible to me otherwise).

Maybe Skyler will be able to pull the same thing off with her professional school(s), and maybe she'll make lifetime connections with others along this path; but I'm wondering if she's missing out on something (besides the beer).

Posted by: Woolstar | Jul 14, 2005 4:18:16 PM

Very interesting post. I've done a fair amount of school (double majored in english and math, with an MS in engineering), and I feel that I got a lot out of it. But I have been blown away with what an interested, focused person can accomplish in software development with no degree (or even no coursework) in computer science.

At first, I thought the "self-taught" pheonomenon was a quirk of the software world - that the rapid rate of change in programming was somehow differentiated it from more mature fields (like medicine or law). But lately, I've come around to the notion that the presence of experts without degrees in software represents the norm, not the exception, for learning. People can become truly expert in fields without a "formal" education as long as they have access to information, tools for experimentation, and a passion for learning.

Anyway, this is just a longwinded way of saying: "I agree". If you've spent years reading, writing, experimenting, and so forth, you're educated in the field - regardless of degree.

If this were the case in other fields, I suspect you'd fine a lot of self-taught experts over there as well.

Posted by: Geoff B | Jul 14, 2005 5:38:04 PM

Good for Skyler. It's a brave new world, and she sounds like she's jumping into it with courage and the knowledge of what it means.

College is fine if you have a clear and passionate goal that fits into that methodology. But few careers do anymore. Hell, even the word "career" is obsolete.

"But she always seemed so bright"...

Reply: "That's why she stayed away from college".

There's a reason the phrase "college education" is two words - it's a special case of the much broader concept of "education".

Good luck, Skyler.

Posted by: Kyle Bennett | Jul 14, 2005 5:57:20 PM

you make some good points and things that i always wondered about when i was in college. i used to hear our president at school and the school board back in new orleans always talking about what was best for us. amazing how they never asked for our opinions or input. how is the average student expected to connexxt?

i'm 24, so I've just been out almost 2 years. i tried to focus on the internships and the business leaders that would take me under their wing. it was rare that i was pumped for classes. not because it was class, but i knew that the useful knowledge, the knowledge that would help me move ahead was outside the 'box.' i learned much in the box, but i loved to hear the stories of other people who'd been places. the lunches and business meetings and random emails to professionals i admired...those were and are my passions.

i always felt the degree was a formality. i worked hard, did well and graduated, but i never felt as if it would define me. i just knew i needed it to get into that interview. i always thought that once i got some place, i'd make some noise. so far i was right. i can't wait to see who i learn from next and what i can do. i'm just one of many.

Posted by: christien | Jul 14, 2005 7:49:17 PM

I went to college for a couple of years because it was automatically assumed if you were smart and could do well in high school that you would go there next. This was in the late 80s. I didn't finish because there was not enough there that I wanted to learn. Most of what I'm really interested in, I learn on my own.

In some ways, I think a degree is an insult to the passion for actual learning and the love of it, like religion is an insult to the passion for genuine spirituality and a solid sense of ethics.

On the other hand, my pay scale over the past 15 years has been relatively slim and slow. Lots of jobs have been taken outside of my interests to keep me afloat and just barely pay the bills. The student loan had been put off for a long time and I'm just in the past few years beginning to knock the principal down after letting all that extra interest accumulate (stupid, stupid, stupid).

If I hadn't been so passionate about my interests, it would have been much easier to just play the game. In the end, it's a gift and a curse to be so devoted to something. It has a price.

Posted by: Keith Handy | Jul 14, 2005 8:12:48 PM

After doing something similar to Skyler, "working for a while" before doing the college thing, I'm finding there is one very good reason to pay the $40,000 pricetag on a college education: the piece of paper you get at the end. As I move up, I've found this piece of paper becomes more and more important to the PHBs while my self-taught experience becomes worth less (and worthless).

A college grad who can't understand how to do a fraction of my old job now has my old job - and is paid more to boot. If I'm lucky, I'll score a new job paying almost what I used to make in the higher paying economy I now call home. And all for the want of a paper.

Posted by: Cori G | Jul 14, 2005 8:25:20 PM

"I've been watching Dori with some envy... going on visits with her son to check out prospective colleges, talking about application forms, entrance exams, all that stuff I naturally assumed I'd be doing when my daughter Skyler turned 16 or 17."

You want to borrow Sean for a couple of weeks? We'd be happy to send him out to visit you, and you could beat your head against that particular wall.

If Sean announced tomorrow that he didn't want to go to college, and instead wanted to sign up for a training program because he had a passion for [fill in the blank], I'd be the first to break out the champagne. But first I'd have to be revived, because I'd have fallen down into a dead faint.

The impression I get of Skyler (not having met her) is that she's a passionate, creative kid wiith lots of ideas. Sean? Not so much. He doesn't have a strong desire to go to college, but then, he doesn't have a strong desire to not go to college. He doesn't have a strong desire to major in a particular field, but then, he doesn't have a strong desire to not major in a particular field. He has no strong desire to go to a particular school, and no strong desire not to go to a particular school. And so on.

He's well aware of the life-long learning issue -- anyone who lives in our house would have to be. He's seen that what I was doing 8 years ago is vastly different from what I'm doing now, and that what I was doing 8 years before that was even more different. And we've made it clear that whatever he does end up doing, he should expect that he'll have to work to keep current, because the 21st century is only going to move faster and faster.

One of the main reasons we're encouraging bioinformatics for him is because it lets him keep his hand in so many fields -- if it turns out that (for instance) pure mathematics is his love, yay. If it's something else, that's good too. My thought is that he should be exposed to as many different fields and areas as possible, and then he can see which (if any) make him sing. And if none of them do, well, at least he'll have lots of options because he's learned so many things.

We make jokes about him going to UCSC and double-majoring in Bioinformatics and Astrophysics (two of their top-rated departments). He'd end up knowing a great deal about a great deal, but there ain't a job on earth that will use all of it. And that's okay. OTOH, he'll be taking Physics for the first time in the fall, and maybe that'll be The One.

If you're someone reading this who doesn't read our blog and has gotten the idea from the above that he's a general Math/Science geek: you're right.

Another school we're encouraging him to look at closely is Harvey Mudd. One of the things I like best about HMC is that they don't let you declare a major until your Sophomore year. Every Freshman enrolled takes the same "Common Core" courses so they get a broad education.

Side thought 1: as I tell Sean, if you're going to use Gates as an example of someone who didn't finish his degree, you have to compare/contrast Ballmer. What would he be today if he hadn't gone to college when/where he did?

Side thought 2: some of the heaviest drinkers I've ever known were the 18-25 year olds who didn't go to college. I think that it's more the age and not where you happen to be at that age.

Side thought 3: if you've ever considered writing a post on bringing out passion in the dispassionate, I'd love to read it!

Posted by: Dori | Jul 14, 2005 9:38:36 PM

I have to say that going to college and getting a degree in computer science would probably be a complete waste. My degree is Latin American Studies and I went to a solid liberal arts school. While I have never used that knowledge directly in my jobs, learning to write and communicate ideas and organize thoughts have all been critical to every job I have had, and are critical now that I run my own business. I don't regret for a minute getting my degree, although I didn't spend all that much time getting drunk, so maybe my experience was different.

I don't think college is necessary for everybody, but I do think that if you do go to college, you should study broadly instead or narrowly. Skyler sounds like she will be fine because she sounds like she will study broadly outside the confines of a college. Some people can do that, and some cannot, but I am glad she was able to see her way to doing what is right for her. Best of luck to her... and to you.

(Having a daughter in college now myself, I assure you that the joys of picking out dorm furniture are easily outweighed by the horrors of watching the way many college students do squander their opportunities)

Posted by: Ben Langhinrichs | Jul 14, 2005 9:58:36 PM

Hiya Kathy and Skyler...

I dropped out halfway through an engineering degree. And I can say, 20 years later, that I'm realllllly glad I did half an engineering degree.

Here's what I got out of it:

o I became a dj on the campus radio station, allowing me to get my first job at a commercial radio station as a sound engineer, just 4 days after I dropped out.

o I was a journalist and humourist on the student newspaper, which allowed me to flex my skills as a writer. I'm now a professional writer and artist, thanks to the exposure I gave myself back then.

o The problem-solving skills I picked up in engineering are things I use daily. They fit with my mode of analytical thinking, which I wouldn't easily have uncovered due to my being hyper creative as well.

o I learned about sex at varsity too. Hehehehehehe. Very useful.

o I learned about politics too, and was a student left-winger, albeit a misanthropic, cynical one. I'm still a lefty, and I really love the exposure I got to diversity and debate.

o I learned about film and art. I sat in on history of art lectures, and learned that I have the ability to understand art. I went to our film library and watched rare classics that I could never have seen anywhere else. (Well, it's now possible to buy the dvd of the original NOSFERATU THE VAMPIRE. But until three or so years ago, nogo.) I'm now a filmmaker amongst other things.

o I was a member of the War Games Society, and played hundreds of hours of Dungeons & Dragons (and similar). This allowed me to flex my imagination, and work out all sortsa things for myself.

Most of the things I learned at varsity were extra-mural. But those extra mural activities were supported by the structure imposed by being in a learning environment.

I would argue that a classical education is one of the most valuable things a person can get. (When I dropped out, I started another degree, majoring in philosophy, theory of literature, and English. Didn't complete it, but got far enough (8/10ths of the way) to know that I'm pretty darn clever.

Blue skies
love
Roy

Posted by: Roy Blumenthal | Jul 15, 2005 1:17:28 AM

Good for Skyler!

Personally I'd agree with Robert Pirsig's take on things - that education for the sake of having a piece of paper is frankly not worth the paper it's written on, but that the more worthwhile education comes from interest in the subject. He gives an excellent story of a guy who dropped out of high school because frankly the whole thing bored him. He became a car mechanic, as shop was about the only thing he'd been any good at, but as he repairs cars, he comes across all kinds of engineering problems, so he decides he needs to read up on metallurgy, on maths, on chemistry, and so forth, till in the end he puts himself through college, driven by passion for the subjects which he has a real love for.

I kind of did this myself - I went to university as a mature student at age 27, to study French. I'm now working for a French company, though that's as far as my use of the subject goes. That said, I wouldn't have swapped that time for anything. I got to study Japanese there, got my yellow belt in jiu-jitsu there, went and lived in France for a year in a school as part of my studies, came back and cycled the length of the UK for charity, met my wife and fell in love there (we're still together nearly 10 years on, and expecting our second child), and the company that I work for wouldn't have looked twice at me without my degree even though I work in IT and I have an arts degree. I got to study all sorts of interesting things too - like the French resistance, the holocaust in France, the Algerian war, French philosophy, linguistics. It took me till last year to pay off the loans, but it was worth every penny.

So, my message to Skyler is, don't write it off, but do what you love. If you find you need a degree for what you want to do, or if it'd be useful to you, then go study it. Whatever you do, do it with arete. In with both feet.

Posted by: Matt Moran | Jul 15, 2005 1:39:17 AM

I have no doubt that time in higher education can benefit anyone - sometimes it shows them that they are suited to academic study and sometimes it shows them that this is not the path for them right now. I think the problem is the assumption that the "best time" (read "only time for anyone in their right freakin' minds") is at the end of your teens - a hangover imho from a time when careers generally were more formally structured to suit the needs of businesses that were....well, more formally structured.

This is about living today. I believe that we're never finished creating ourselves and we do our best work when we help others to create themselves. Just as soon as your daughter ever finds that she's more passionate about going to college than making great food, she will do so. I say "Go Skyler! You feed the world."

Posted by: Lloyd Davis | Jul 15, 2005 1:41:34 AM

BTW, just to add, I was listening to a dharma talk by the Buddhist Society of Western Australia recently, and the speaker, Ajahn Brahm, quoted a study into happiness by the London School of Economics. Apparently the country that came top in the LSE's league table of happiness was Bangladesh, one of the most desperately poor countries in the world. Apparently poverty is no bar to happiness!

http://www.inspirationalstories.com/cgi-bin/printer.pl?302

Posted by: Matt Moran | Jul 15, 2005 1:58:19 AM

PS: Kathy... looks like my previous emails to you didn't make it through your spam traps. Darn.

Posted by: Roy Blumenthal | Jul 15, 2005 3:48:12 AM

All the way through elementary & secondary school, I was told I was "bright." And I was, though I didn't know it. The problem was, I hated school -- it was boring, and we never got to study stuff that I was interested in. I almost never did homework, but picked up enough in class to ace the tests. That made for a lot of B's and C's, with a predictable result on my self-image.

I'm a 3-time college dropout, that being the number of times I was convinced, either by parents or friends, that I needed a degree to get anywhere at all. After doing blue-collar work for a few years, I wangled my way into a word-processing job at a mid-sized manufacturing company. I discovered some graphic software on my computer (a Mac -- woohoo!), and started playing around. I started enhancing some of the documents and Powerpoint presentations I was assigned, and within a few weeks, I was asked if I knew enough to work on some print advertising. I lied and said "yes." In truth I knew next to nothing, but I learned, and quickly -- all from reference books and trial&error (this was shortly before the rise of the 'net).

Long story short: I became a professional graphic designer, working freelance, doing (mostly) what I love for the past 10 years. Looking back, it's safe to say most of my formal education served only to discourage me from learning. I learned to read before starting school, and got my love of reading from my parents, not from Lit class, where we were never assigned reading that was interesting to me. I learned from my father that if I don't know something, I can learn -- read a book, ask someone, or just try something and see what happens. That is the foundation of my true education. And at this point in time, I am certain that nothing is beyond my capability.

For some, college may be a necessity -- some fields require the piece of paper just to get in the door, for instance -- but this is true far less often than it used to be. Instead of the presumption, it should be the exception, IMHO.

Posted by: Splashman | Jul 15, 2005 4:15:51 AM

At age 3, my daughter announced, "Art is my life, Mommy!" This fall, she is leaving home for the art department of a small Christian school (Gordon College) where the personal standards are high, the students are pretty much self-policing, and the academics look like a real classical education. Some people's take on this? "What a shame...she always seemed so bright." Answer~ She is. She's a chart topper on every test given, and a straight A+ student. "How is she going to learn about the 'real world' without a college experience full of drinking and dating (a euphemism for casual sex)?" Answer~ She'll see the 'real world' all around her in the surrounding communities, especially Boston, but she'll emerge without as much baggage, heartbreak, and STDs.

Follow your passion, baby! I did, with a "useless" non-traditional college degree in Classical Greek, a further non-traditional masters in Folklore, and plenty of job offers at every stage of my life because I am unique in my background, training, outlook, and my ability to think and learn!

Posted by: Cyndi L | Jul 15, 2005 6:13:48 AM

I think the bachelors degree is good for one thing. It gets you in the door for most companies. While it doesn't mean you know how to work, how to learn, or how to solve problems, it's still the minimum entry level requirement for most jobs.

Posted by: Steve Betts | Jul 15, 2005 8:17:11 AM

Talkiog about passion in what you do and what you do with it:

Passion is where your heart lies. I did physics and it sucked big time. I never liked it. I'd have happily wanted to have followed AstroPhysics but anyways back then(13-14 odd yrs back) it didn't matter. Computers back then were all green screens and it was not really that appealing.

I went sailing and I was in love with the seas. I've loved everybit of it , I met people from all parts of the world. It was an exilirating experience. I can literally feel like a little kid with a baloon in hands if I can just smell the diesel smoke from the funnels when I drive past the harbors.

I found the love of my life when I met my girl friend(now wife) here and I quit saling.

I picked up the trails that I left when I left college. IT Sector was on the downside(1999/2000) still I was in love. So I carried on. I started afresh and got into databases(Oracle) and suddennly I was aroused. Since then I have done consultancy,DBA related jobs. It all was possible because I was hooked not because I was calculated or planned it all out. No way.

Today I'm a Sr.DBA/Architect , I teach english in local school, will be Giving lessons to univ under-grads at my current Univ job, picking up the strands and trying to tie up my own band andv will pick up just about everything that i fall in love with.

The world is changing but it's not the regular joes and janes( they could be even be thunderbird,stanford,yale, harvard grads/masters--there are however exception), it's the drop-outs who're dropping out of the herd.

The world today with so much of text, graphic will change so drastically(actually it will be all replaced)that you'd laugh your a** out looking back at this transitional indulgence of typing(vlogging will change this very soon). HI(human intelligence) is truly the potential that will be exploited and will lead to massive breakthroughs.

Deal is simple.You just have to fall in love :-).

Posted by: Tarry | Jul 15, 2005 9:47:14 AM

Four years at $20k/year for an American (first) degree sounds poor value. Is that a typical state college or Yale/Harvard/UCBerkley standard? Why not look at a cheaper European option, with a better degree at the end of it (and perhaps three years instead of four)?

Of course some really bright kids adopt a strategy early on of pretending to be one of the crowd and dumber than they are. Unfortunately it's hard to shake that off later on.

The real benfits of University are:
1. Living away from home.
2. Learning how to work on problems, and how to absorb new information;
3. Meeting *much* cleverer people than you would meet at home.
4. Stretching your mental faculties.
5. Learning not to give up when things seem hard.
6. Learning to check facts!

Employers value many of these traits, en therefore prefer new hires to have a degree.

W.

Posted by: Wally | Jul 15, 2005 10:29:47 AM

Well, these days I'm in the "get the degree anyway" camp. In fact, at almost 42 years old, I am planning to start a degree this year. My story:

I too am a software developer/architect, trainer, presenter, and the author of a few tech books (listed at my blog) . Readers and colleagues are surprised to find out that I don't have a college degree. Instead, I traveled the world for five years, visiting 60+ countries, and worked in England, Australia, and Portugal. I took certification courses and taught myself software development along the way because I enjoyed it and it paid well enough to continue my travels for extended periods. In between jobs I saw the world and made some great friends. I highly recommend this to any young person, usually much to the consternation of their protective parents. It was a great experience that I would not trade for anything else.

However, I regret not taking time to get a degree since I returned from my travels to Canada (then moved to the USA). In the high-tech business, you work in and with many large companies. These companies have HR departments. They do this by scanning candidate resumes for keywords. If a job requisition has a keyword like "degree" and your resume does not match that keyword, then you are not a match for the job. Simple as that. It doesn't have to be a pertinent degree, I know many colleagues that have music or philosophy degrees. But they do match the keyword, so they are a match. And let's imagine that I did get that degree in computer science back in 1983. In those days the curriculum covered important topics like Fortran, CPM, VAX, punch-card management and top-down programming. What possible use would that knowledge be in today's IT world? Apparently, that doesn't matter. There are thankfully ways around HR for enterprising individuals, which is why I have a job. But the HR hurdle is a tough one to overcome.

So based on my attitude, why do I want to get a degree now? Because I'm getting old and there IS a societal glass ceiling for non-college graduates that cannot be ignored. In small business, it's hard to get a loan without a degree, even with a good track record. In the corporate world, having a degree does not become an issue right away. You don't need a degree for an entry-level job, but you do need one for other jobs with more responsibility and higher pay. The result is that if you don't have a degree, you end up working with and for younger, less experienced people for less money than other people in your age bracket. As you said, money isn't everything, but getting stuck in jobs later in life that you are under-qualified for can affect much more than your bank account. So now I'm getting the degree and looking forward to more keyword matches in the future...

Posted by: Brian Benz | Jul 15, 2005 11:09:01 AM

I know what you mean by that feeling of "unfulfilled potential". I always felt this unspoken obligation to do the hardest thing I was capable of doing, even if I didn't like it. To do something difficult and intellectually demanding. To leave the easier (and sometimes more fun) jobs to those who couldn't handle the harder stuff. I don't know where this feeling came from, but it's hard to shake. Especially when the hard stuff pays so well...

Posted by: Jennifer Grucza | Jul 15, 2005 11:45:04 AM

I'd like to say thank you for this entry. It's really great to know that someone outside my age group understands that college simply isn't for everyone.

You see, two semesters ago, I left school to pursue a basic interest in web development and to work part-time in computer repair until I could figure out something a bit more stable. My mother, professors, friends, and just about everyone else in my life (save two or three people) thought of that decision as being the biggest mistake I've ever made.

For the first time since I started looking at colleges, I'm happy. I'm finally able to do something that I love and am not forced to wake up each day knowing I'm going to waste away in three more classes like Intro to Rock & Roll and African Studies in order to fulfill my General Education requirements and come closer to getting a degree in Marketing.

Yes, I'm making less money than I would be right out of college. Yes, I'm living paycheck to paycheck. And yes, I'm struggling to find clients in this tiny town. But I'm happy and I'm passionate in what I do. I couldn't ask for more.

Posted by: Brian Rose | Jul 15, 2005 11:53:02 AM

Here´s what I do: I am living in Germany where we have, additionally to the classic colleges, a dual system where you apply at a company which will send you study. This is for 3 years in terms of 3 months of studying and 3 months of working. You still almost get the same contents as in a classic german college, just very comprimized. And aside from having a view into actual work life, which regular college kids are miles and miles and miles away from, you get paid for studying, now who can claim that?
This means: you get a college degree, which is a little less, than the regular one but get to start 2 years earlier two work.
I couldn´t allow to be drunk all the time, hell, I can´t even allow myself to get sick more than three days in a row if I want to keep track of my classes. Sounds ugly and it is a bit, but I guess it holds a lot of experiences you sooner or later have to make, which will add to your personal growth more than partying on your parents money.
If anyone is interested any further, feel free to inquiry by emailing me or visiting my home page.
http://www.allralph.de

Posted by: Ralph | Jul 15, 2005 12:10:04 PM

One quick note on the financial side of things:

It is far easier for the passionate entrepreneur to turn joy into money then it is for the rich person to turn money into joy.

In other words it is much easier to find money via passion then it is to find passion via money.

Wrote a little more about it at the blog:

http://entreprexplorer.blogspot.com

Posted by: Jared | Jul 15, 2005 12:19:38 PM

"Four years at $20k/year for an American (first) degree sounds poor value. Is that a typical state college or Yale/Harvard/UCBerkley standard? Why not look at a cheaper European option, with a better degree at the end of it (and perhaps three years instead of four)?"

Four years @ $20K/year is for a typical state college. A private college such as Yale or Harvard is 2-3 x that. UC Berkley is, for us Californians, a state college (and so on the lower end of things), but anyone enrolling from out of state has to pay higher rates.

Got any resources you can recommend to learn more about the European options? When Caltech or MIT has a bill of $160K for a 4-year degree, alternatives sound great.

Posted by: Dori | Jul 15, 2005 1:09:18 PM

My take on the college thing is if you are not going for a hard science or engineering degree, something that requires access to Big, Expensive Equipment, you are better off just staying home and getting an online degree.

For many companies the sheepskin is important, it's a right of passage, a subway token that gets you in, but it doesn't need to be in a related field for them to hire you.

I have noticed a trend in some companies requiring master's degrees for certain positions since a Bachelors isn't worth very much to them.

I have a little girl and I want her to be passionate about something. I am going to try and expose her to as many different learning experiences as I can to help her find her talents and preferences, but I am sure she will end up changing her work several times in her life.

I want her to set up her own business so she can be in control rather then be someone else's drone.

For a take on the New World of Work from the other end look at:
http://www.mutualofamerica.com/articles/Fortune/May2005/Fortune.asp
and
http://ripples.typepad.com/ripples/2005/07/how_do_you_know.html
Ripples has two sequel posts on the subject too.

Posted by: Stephan F | Jul 15, 2005 3:09:19 PM

I'm overly educated. I own two degrees from Stanford and one from Harvard Business School, which have cost me and my family somewhere on the order of a quarter of a million dollars in inflation-adjusted terms.

Yet I can't imagine not having that education.

Yes, there are those people who have a passion and may not need college to pursue that passion. But without college, will they receive a firm grounding in a variety of disciplines? Will they learn the formal frameworks that we never think about, but internalize and use as the basis of the improvisations that make up our everyday lives.

I studied Creative Writing and Product Design when I was at Stanford. Rarely am I called upon to use the exact skills and experience that I developed. Certainly my knowledge of 15-year-old CAD packages is completely useless at this point. But I use skills based on my college experiencess every single day.

Without my engineering courses, I wouldn't have the same analytical abilities. Without my English courses, I wouldn't have the same writing abilities.

Sometimes, just doing isn't enough. I know this is hard for people to believe, because it is very seductive to believe that just doing what you're passionate about is enough. But the world works in a certain way, and even if you decide not to follow those rules, it's important to know and understand them.

It is very true that a conventional college education is insufficient. I've learned just as much outside of school as inside. But I don't think I could have learned the things I learned in school without being in school.

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are exceptional in every sense of the word. Very few people have ever done what they did. Does skipping school work for some? Yes. Could the educational model be improved? Yes. Would skipping school work for most? Probably not.

Posted by: Chris Yeh | Jul 15, 2005 3:54:43 PM

Chris, you seem to be implying that in order to learn creative writing, product design, CAD and the "formal frameworks," one must attend a traditional college. Do you really believe that?

My contention is that the "real world" can motivate someone to learn much more efficiently (both in time and money) than the carrot of a high GPA in an institution far removed from the real world. I have observed that when a person is taught to love learning, they will not limit their learning to their chosen vocation. And when a person is told that they *must* learn a given subject because someday in the misty future it will be useful, that person learns that learning is tedious. And that is the real tragedy of a traditional "education."

My 5-year-old daughter is learning division because she wants to help her mother pick the most economical package of pasta at the grocery store. I own three psychology textbooks, because that knowledge supports my marketing technique and design skills. This notion that one must "prepare" for a wide variety of outcomes, far in advance of any need, is ridiculously wasteful and indicative of the ivory-tower neverland that most colleges reside in. In the real world, one learns when one feels the need to learn.

All a diploma proves is that a person attended college. The person holding that diploma may be highly intelligent, or may be just barely intelligent enough to skate by. The objective value of a diploma as a job qualification is next to nothing.

Posted by: Splashman | Jul 16, 2005 1:29:26 AM

First, understand that only the uninformed (read incurious) and the capital-contrained opt for traditional higher education. From the May 20, 2004 issue of The Economist:

"'There has been a huge swing to custom programmes,' says Fiona van Haeringen of IESE, who attended a recent annual conference of business-education providers in America. 'The market is very aggressive, very competitive and the power is with the buyer.' Don Kuhn, executive director of Unicon, a group of about 75 business schools around the world that offer executive education, says that a survey of about 40 members found that three-quarters of them said overall revenues had grown between 2002 and 2003, but the remaining quarter said they had declined. Looking to this year, most saw growth coming mainly from customised education tailored for one company. 'It's just knocking the cover off the ball,' rejoices Richard Vietor, who was until recently in charge of executive education for Harvard Business School."

From the October 20, 2003 issue of Business Week:

"Corporate managers and human resources directors from 134 companies in 20 countries responded to BusinessWeek's survey of executive education this year...Nearly 42% of respondents said they were sending fewer employees to open-enrollment programs than they did five years ago, citing an unclear return on the investment and courses that are too generic and therefore not helpful enough once an employee is back on the job. But rather than abandon training altogether, some 50% of respondents said they were sending more people to customized programs...This year saw huge momentum for providers of customized executive education -- with full programs that can cost $5,000 to $10,000 per participant for a weeklong course. For the Top 20 providers on our list, custom programs were often more than 50% of revenues, topping $190 million."

Why do savvy education consumers insist on customization? From Follow This Path, a book published by The Gallup Organization in 2002:

"[Gallup's] hundreds of studies proved time after time that talent makes a huge impact on profitable growth across every major type of occupation and industry...superior performers...follow their instincts and thereby identify and develop their specialties. [Given the historic modi operandi of education and corporate training] almost always they [have done] this on their own."

Why is customization the key?

Creativity is a better predictor of achievement than intelligence. From a November 2000 interview with Dr. E. Paul Torrance:

"Interviewer: How does creativity relate to intelligence?

Dr. E. Paul Torrance: Very little. Figure creativity does not relate to intelligence at all. There is a relationship between intelligence and verbal creativity. There is consistent research over 30 or 40 years. It goes like this: If you give children in school a creativity test and an intelligence test, there is only about a 30 percent overlap. By just measuring intelligence you miss 70 percent of the creative students. In follow-up studies of creative achievement we find that the highly creative out achieve everybody.

Interviewer: Then creativity would be better as a predictor of achievement than intelligence.

Dr. E. Paul Torrance: Yes.

Interviewer: Is there a difference between problem solving and creativity?

Dr. E. Paul Torrance: Problem solving requires both creative and critical thinking."

Creativity takes shape at the intersection of creativity skills, domain knowledge and intrinsic motivation. From a December 2004 article written by Harvard Business School Professor Dr. Theresa Amabile:

"Almost all of the [creativity] research...shows that anyone with normal intelligence is capable of doing some degree of creative work. Creativity depends on a number of things: experience, including knowledge and technical skills; talent; an ability to think in new ways; and the capacity to push through uncreative dry spells. Intrinsic motivation -- people who are turned on by their work often work creatively -- is especially critical. Over the past five years, organizations have paid more attention to creativity and innovation than at any other time in my career. But I believe most people aren't anywhere near to realizing their creative potential, in part because they're laboring in environments that impede intrinsic motivation."

By definition, education that taps intrinsic motivation must be customized.

Q.E.D. :-)

So forget the perception-reality gap. Skyler has the right idea!

Posted by: Frank Ruscica | Jul 16, 2005 8:20:30 AM

For me, college was a ticket out of the Bronx. I learned to think independently, a skill that has served me well for the past 29 years (State University of NY at New Paltz, class of 1977)

Posted by: Dagny | Jul 16, 2005 10:13:37 AM

"The hacker ethic" addresses the passion issue:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/037575878X/

Posted by: dan | Jul 16, 2005 11:03:59 AM

It doesn't matter much when you're young, but it becomes a problem later on, when you can't get promoted because you don't have a degree, no matter how many years of experience you have! EVERYone starts out low on the totem pole, but as the years go by, only those with a degree have any opportunities at all - at least where I work. I've spent fifteen years there, and upper management is quite rigid. As one of the previous posters said, it doesn't matter WHAT your degree is in (I work in a blood bank and my boss has a degree in Fisheries & Wildlife!) as long as you have one. You'd better believe that I am strongly urging both of my children to attend college so they are NOT stuck in my position!

Posted by: laurieb | Jul 16, 2005 4:30:00 PM

I personally know what the writer is trying to say because I myself have had this mind set since I was a teenager. I am now 20 years old, still in college working on my degree, but almost got kicked out do to grades last semester. It was due to the fact that in my opinion that having to learn other studies that are not apart of your proffession/passion is an utter waste of your time and money. Why should a computer scientist have to learn biology, history, and foregin language? Why should an art major have to take math and chemistry? It just logically doesn't make sense. Now some of these courses are just to see if you can think at a higher level and thats all, even if they don't pretain to your feild of study. In the end all it comes down to a slip of paper that will get you an extra $5,000 a year.

Posted by: Mike | Jul 16, 2005 5:27:06 PM

I graduated a mid-level college in 1969 and picked up a graduate degree in 1973. Nothing has been more valuable to me in my career and personal life. Nothing. Maybe I appreciate it more because I'm the son of an immigrant mill worker. It makes me sad to see the number of comments here that view the issue in terms of an ROI. If money was really what it was all about, you should just go sell drugs.

Posted by: shel Israel | Jul 16, 2005 6:06:25 PM

You are very one uneducated person dont blame your problems and frustrations with people that whent to college

Posted by: Jr | Jul 16, 2005 6:11:03 PM

I love how when ever anyone complains about the cost of college they use the most extreme examples. $80,000??? You could get it under $20k if you go to a state school and live at home... which won't be hard to pay off that low intrest student loan once you land a job making 2x that amount per year. Even if you live on campus that number doubles at most. You can't really ad in the cost of food and stuff becuase you would need to pay for that even if you were not in school. Also most schools have BS jobs anyone can work that pay really high b/c they want to help you. I worked for 20 hours a week doing research on my own time and was paid $15 an hour, and if you can keep your GPA over 3.5 (that just means more A's than B's not THAT hard) there are plenty of scholorships to go around... so 80k is extreme IMHO

Posted by: BobSmith | Jul 16, 2005 6:23:13 PM

Hi Kathy,

what are you afraid of? Your daughter is still a very young person. She is still trying out what best fits to her. And maybe she changes her mind again. I'm sure that deep in her heart she respect all your efforts you have done so far and she is proud having you as her mom.

The only important thing is that she is honest to herself and that is something I think you have taught your daughter.

So let her do her experiments, she will always look how you did it and will follow your steps more or less. She is not a stranger, she has your blood. And whatever she will do, she will do it with the same energy like you do your job.

However, if you see that she is going to be totally lost then it's your duty to help her to find her way.

Regards,
Darya

Posted by: Darya | Jul 16, 2005 6:27:42 PM

you hardly go to college to learn syntax - you go to learn concepts, to network and of course to grow up before you have to give up your life to a corporate overlord. So what that the specific language you learned MAY become obsolete? The concepts you leanred won't - not for a while. And about outsourcing - if you're any good, there's always going to be work for you, regardless of outsourcing. So, don't worry - go to college, relax, get As, get out with a rolodex full of friends (who will undoubtedly do well as well) and above, enjoy your life! (who works at Starbucks? f--- that. I don't know one person who does. all it takes is a little hutzpah and a little ambition to escape the clutches of the khaki-and-green).

Posted by: Anatoly | Jul 16, 2005 6:33:46 PM

College Degree < Library Card

Posted by: Chris @ UCCS | Jul 16, 2005 6:45:36 PM

I friggin love it! haha

Posted by: Fox | Jul 16, 2005 6:55:38 PM

Kathy your daugher is far smarter than I ever was at that age. She’s got her head one straight and thankfully she’s following her heart and not what anyone else is saying she should do. Good for her!

Posted by: Jason Kratz | Jul 16, 2005 8:26:02 PM

I can agree with most of your points about college. The thing that I disagree with is that money doesn't = happiness. Now, I know that money in itself doesn't bring happiness, but what does a lack of money bring? I think it brings stress, worry and lack of time. TIME being the most important. If you have no time for relationships and enjoying life, then happiness is fleeting. I guarantee it, because I know first hand. I think, in a nation of free-enterprise, we should take advantage of that. Spend the first few years of our working lives creating a revenue stream through a business of our own so we can go do the things we REALLY want to do because that's how our nation is set up. The reason foreigners make such a point to pursue an education in America is because they think we're gonna teach them how to become free-enterprisers, which we're not. We're going to teach them to do what we do, which is "go get a good education and with that education go out and get a good JOB that is limited and building someone else's dreams.

I would say college is a must for certain professions and if that's what someone wants then they should go for it. But I say we DO avoid college, otherwise. I say we learn about how our laws are set up and how we can take advantage of that to get our TIME back and go live a truly fulfilling life.

Email me if you wanna chat.

Posted by: Zack | Jul 16, 2005 10:26:53 PM

It took me 10 years to get a 4 year degree (interruption by military service, having 5 kids, full time employment, etc).

Trust me when I say there were times I wanted to just give up and cried on my wife's shoulders. She'd pick me up and send me on my way.

What I saw in college disappointed me in many ways. Students coming in having slacked off in high school expected the same in college. I was surrounded on a job site by people in some of my classes and it was shocking to see the ineptitude and "bluffing" to get by.

Sure, I hated a few classes, went up against a few teachers for silly notions they tried to hammer in my head, crashed and burned at Calculus and built up the nerve to try again a few years later (and succeeded wildly).

But I'll say this more than anything. College teaches you to THINK *IF* you're willing to do the thinking. With a large family and having a single income for much of the time, I've learned HOW to do research to repair my own transmission, rebuilt parts of my home, repair air conditioning systems, do all kinds things via computer, organized neighborhood groups to rebuild a park, became fed up with local politics and power games and ran for office (and won) and have been instrumental at bringing a lot of positive change to citizens here - often in small, unseen ways. I can write and convey ideas cogently, and without poor spelling and grammar. I can jury rig all kinds of stuff based upon my science knowlege (ironically, most principles learned in high school as a diversion away from an abusive home environment).

I can be creative, but the knowledge of HOW to learn has propelled me MUCH further than I could have otherwise.


I'm currently unemployed (from IT - 3rd layoff in 3 years), and am capable of doing many things and KNOW I can learn new things because I've proven it to myself that I'm not an idiot and can think. Having a large family precludes me from taking the kind of risks with creating my own business that I might do otherwise, and I may do it later in life anyway. It's hard to work for people who are threatened by intelligent underlings, and it seems to cause conflict.

But there's so much to learn at college for self improvement and piquing interests in areas that you might not be exposed to at all otherwise.

I have to say that many of the comments seen so far seem to be the result of a generation of people weaned on computer games and television who don't have the discipline to get in and do things that maybe they don't like, but are necessary parts of the foundation of our culture. If we had too many people who found it too hard to do science, where would we get so many of the advancements we have today? Sure, I'd LOVE to travel across the country again as I did for a sabbatical from a job (along with 4 kids under 8 for 9 weeks in a minivan and tent trailer - yeah, I was crazy, but LOVED meeting new people). I also used my research skills and knowledge of history learned in high school and college to do research on my ancestors and saw how their lives intertwined with history and used knowledge of societal and personal motivations from psychology to understand much more deeply the forces that shaped people in their respective timeperiods of their lives. (Trust me, you'll NEED a good education to sift out the crap that some teachers dispense! :-) )

Doors only open with additional education, and you're not limited by a lack of education. I know people who didn't go to college and sure, they might be very smart in areas of cooking or diesel mechanics, etc, but by their own admission, there are things they want to do, but can't because they don't have doors opened to them by that sheepskin, and they don't know how to successfully lay the foundation to accomplish what they want to do.

Like it or not, fair or unfair, that's how a majority of society deems YOUR qualifications for consideration for employment. My brother is MUCH more wealthy than I am, and didn't graduate high school. He got by through desperation, taking risks because he had nothing to lose and learned to jump on opportunities that popped up in front of him. But he started with bootleg tapes and other shady dealings. He has made a LOT of mistakes, and not all is his doing, after having been somewhat abandoned by my mother at age 12.

I've seen too many people who get married, are ditched by a spouse who wants out, and have no education to be able to lift themselves out of poverty or know how to learn to find information that can help them with the daily stresses of life (bill paying, pursuing employment in new areas, dealing with the stresses inherent with a team working with individual personalities and agendas but trying to accomplish a difficult goal - otherwise called "office politics".

As I've gotten older, I've learned to treasure my learning much more. Yeah, I missed out on some life experiences by marrying young (18 year anniversary just passed), but gained other experiences and skills BECAUSE of my education.

I live in an affluent area with LOTS of successful people around me, who have used their education to get ahead. Are they happy? Who knows. They say they are, with all their toys. But I get happiness by sharing my knowledge with others in helping them, solving problems when you don't have exactly the right tools to perform the job, and creatively finding a solution based on knowledge gained in the past. But it takes education to do that. And no, I don't believe that everyone is suited for college, but should NOT turn away from it completely on fallacies of it being a total waste of time. You get out what you put into it.

I do miss the spontaneity that I found on our cross country trip, and with my large family, that's not a pressing priority right now. My time will come and I'll parlay my knowledge and experience to make it a much more enriching experience.

Justin

Posted by: Justin | Jul 17, 2005 2:30:36 AM

The biggest problem with the American college today is largely what your child displays the opposite of.
Many students I know (and I am one of them so I'm intermingling a lot), have atleast 1 of 3 things on their mind: Drugs, Sex, Booze. I know women that lost their virginity before they were 13, and they're proud of it.
Almost no one I've met has actually known what they want to do, solely because they [those that didn't know] were constantly getting drunk or high. The few I know that did know what they wanted to do with life were either not Americans (be it Koren, Malaysian, or anywhere else) or came very few in number. I.E. my old room mate, he's putting a family on the side, because what he has a passion for doing is making video games (much like myself), he wants to move to Japan shortly after college and start putting in applications at places like Square Soft.
This is just one example, there are about 3 others I know that actually know what they're going to do with life, how they're going to enjoy it. After that, it's just about only people that worry about those three things I mentioned above: Drugs, Sex, and Booze. Most commonly it seems more the Sex and Booze than the Drugs.


Also: Although money isn't happiness, and money can't directly buy happiness... You'll be much more able to go to places like Malaysia, or Africa, if you actually have some as opposed to being just above that poverty level... An extra few thousand a year will help you on your path to happiness a lot in the world we live in.
Not that I agree that it should be this way, it's just how things are. It's a blessing to those who can find happiness doing something that doesn't cost money. But even being artistic, painting and such, costs.

Posted by: Paul | Jul 17, 2005 10:09:34 AM

The value of college to me wasn't so much the actual information picked up in classes - a lot of that stuff you can just find out via Internet now - it was in the exposure to many different subjects and ideas, and the practice of different kind of disciplines, and simply meeting students who were from different backgrounds. I came out a big proponent of liberal education. In some ways what you major in isn't important - the pursuit of any learning, in an in-depth way, that really beneficial.

Posted by: ladygoat | Jul 17, 2005 6:27:57 PM

It's funny that your very next topic is "Avoid cliches like the plague" because you have seemed to have fallen for the cliche of the drunken, over-sexed college student. Certainly there are a few just as there are a few drunken 20 year olds who aren't in college. But my experience with real college students has been that they are serious, hard working individuals who want to learn and want to make a difference. Perhaps colleges in Colorado are different, but the students I have seen at the colleges I am familiar with (Hofstra University, Adelphi University, Molloy College, C.W. Post College) have no interest in wasting their time in college getting drunk.

Posted by: Tom | Jul 17, 2005 7:12:42 PM

Tom: let's stick to the facts please... I didn't say anything about over-sexed (or sex of any kind, for that matter). I didn't mention the *students* at all -- I was talking about the college experience itself. But you're right -- it "is" different in Colorado--Boulder was rated the #1 party school last year (I think it dropped to two this year, and people were genuinely disappointed to see it lose the top slot):
http://9news.com/storyfull.asp?id=17711

And Colorado was also the unfortunate home to two of the 1400 college student drinking deaths last year:
http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2004/10/15/news/regional/b63313856c73078f87256f2c006a0875.txt

Is it a stereotype to link drinking to college today? Yes. But according to the National Institute of Health--despite any anecdotal evidence we might all have--drinking is a *very* serious problem, the #1 health risk for college students today.

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/mar2005/niaaa-17.htm

"The harm caused by alcohol consumption among college students may exceed previous estimates of the problem."

"This paper underscores what we had learned from another recent study – that excessive alcohol use by college-aged individuals in the U.S. is a significant source of harm," said Ting-Kai Li, M.D., Director of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA), part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH)."


A Harvard study concludes that 44 percent of college students binge drink.

Duke makes the important point you brought up Tom, that not all college students should be labeled as having an alcohol problem! But... they do acknowledge a serious problem:
http://www.duke.edu/~amwhite/College/college2.htm

And thankfully we have the Princeton review to rate the party schools:

http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?categoryID=4&topicID=26

(Your best bet for a no-drinking school is BYU).

Playboy rates party schools each year (warning: R-rated link):

http://www.playboy.com/on-campus/partyschool/02.html

And the one I found most disturbing:

http://www.pubclub.com/collegefootball/

I don't think of students as being "about drinking", but I do think of "college", on average, as being quite heavily about drinking. (But with tons of exceptions, of course.) There does seem to be a disconnect between how bad parents think it is, and how bad it *really* is. It just has to be factored in when you're talking about college, that's all I'm saying.

The fact my friends and I didn't drink in college (we were all athletes, and not good enough to risk it) leaves me with an alcohol-lite picture of college. But I'd be ignoring the research to think that the "typical" college experience today is exactly like mine was.

Point taken on the stereotype, though. I have to wonder what made YOU bring up sex, though ; )

Posted by: Kathy Sierra | Jul 17, 2005 8:03:08 PM

"But according to the National Institute of Health--despite any anecdotal evidence we might all have--drinking is a *very* serious problem, the #1 health risk for college students today."

Well, something has to be. Lt's face it, college students aren't exactly dropping like flies. But the occasional student that dies has to die of something. Too old for childhood diseases and too young for heart attacks and strokes (for the most part). That leaves accidents and accidents are much more likely if you are drunk. And the statistics for non-college students in this age group don't appear to be different than college students. So the solution wouldn't appear to be avoid college... it would appear that it is best to avoid being 18 to 24.

Posted by: Tom | Jul 20, 2005 10:42:33 AM

I'm pretty steeped in education myself, just so you know my bias. I'm an Instructional Designer in a small liberal arts university and am about 2 months away from graduation with a doctorate in Education. I'm also in my late 40's and I put myself through all 3 degrees while working full-time.

I spend a regular amount of time being distressed at the lack of assessment and accountability for instructors (even as we charge $30,000 a year). Some of these people have no business being in a classroom. That said, loads of them are dedicated (even passionate) about teaching and learning, and they do a good job of it. More often, I watch decidedly uninformed, intellectually bland students (and we get the top ten percent from high schools) blossom into wonderful thoughtful, creative adults as a result of their experiences here.

There are many paths to learning, and college is only one of them. Still, a liberal arts college remains the most intensive, supportive way to get from here to there, no matter where here and there are. Also, it is still the only serious infrastructure by which one can PROVE one has had the discipline to complete a course of study in a diverse array of topics. It is more than just vocational; it is an opportunity to become a critical thinker (or a better one).

Oh, and btw, I don't think the Peace Corps is interested in fresh high school grads. Most don't have any skills the Peace Corps can use.

Posted by: Jo E. | Aug 2, 2005 12:37:03 PM

As a current college student myself, I have to say that I'm pretty dissatisfied with the quality of instruction I'm getting here (Cornell University) considering how much my parents are paying. I've had some seriously bad professors here who just don't care. I've had a Linear Algebra professor who openly made fun of students in class and belittled us for asking questions. I've had a professor in CS who spent no time preparing for lectures (consisting of reading off of error laden powerpoint slides he inherited from the professor who taught it last) because he's too busy running his own company. (some classes are more like recruitment sessions for his company than academic instruction). Of course there are also good dedicated professors(my Japanese professors stand out in this respect), but there are too many bad ones for how much my parents are paying.

Honestly I feel that I'm paying more for access to the university libraries than the classroom instruction. While it's true that there are a lot of benefits to going to college, such as meeting other really smart people, making friends, etc. I feel that most of the benefits of college is not what tuition is going towards. A lot of the tuition goes toward paying the lazy tenured professors' fat pay packages rather than the things that I feel helped me get the most out of my college experience.

Considering how many students skip classes (not for being lazy or unmotivated, but rather they figure that the time is better invested at the library or at the computer lab doing projects or reading rather than listen to the professor drone on with the 5 year old lecture slides that has been handed down from instructor to instructor) I have to question the value of class room instruction at university. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have less class room instruction and more self study with Q&A sessions. I don't think any of us that are considered smart enough to be admitted actually need to be lectured to, and indeed in many classes where the professors were truly bad I learned solely out of the textbook and references from the library to pass the courses. I'd rather the lectures be cancelled and replaced with longer office hours or more time devoted to online Q&A, which is essentially where most of the learning takes place in many CS classes. The students do assigned projects and post questions to online newsgroups dedicated to the class and get answers from TAs, fellow students, or professors, whoever happens to be around. I feel that this takes much less resources and provide better education than lectures.

Posted by: Jeff | Aug 11, 2005 10:32:07 PM

Paul Graham has a nice essay on College that adds to what you say here:
http://www.paulgraham.com/college.html

Posted by: Bruce | Aug 13, 2005 5:35:46 PM

http://scara.com/wwwboard/messages/2045.html clothinggamessickening

Posted by: rag | Sep 6, 2005 11:39:27 PM

Whoa... You've hit the nail square on the head with this one. We can wait to refer our readers to this. BRAVO!

Posted by: College Loan News & Info | Sep 21, 2005 6:34:44 PM

http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/dareview/wwwboard/main/10101.html clothinggamessickening

Posted by: seeking | Sep 25, 2005 9:46:03 PM

Skyler is blessed to know what she does and does not want to do. More power to her. I personally seem to hit this wall when it comes to "studying crap I have no interest in or aptitude for just because it's a requirement." 99.5% of the world is going to tell you "get that degree." What they don't realize is that a degree in something you HATE is NOT going to benefit you in the long run. How long are you going to be able to drag yourself in to do work that you loathe? My parent's generation seemed to be able to do this but it's hardly possible now. Even if the younger generation wanted to work at one company for the rest of their lives that is impossible.

To have a vocation that one truly loves is a blessing indeed.

Posted by: Taffy | Nov 10, 2005 7:59:18 AM

University education should not be confused with vocational training. A university is not the appropriate place to learn specific job skills. At the undergraduate level, university students enhance their basic abilities and understanding in areas such as higher math, logic, foreign language, ethics and problem solving. These basic skills last a lifetime and are valuable in any pursuit.

Consider:
engineering != using CAD
accounting != bookkeeping
computer science != programming
math != using a calculator
geography != reading a map
medicine != giving shots
and so on. All of these fields teach students how to think about and solve certain kinds of problems, not how to operate specific devices or complete specific tasks. This kind of knowledge does not become obsolete.

Universities are not the appropriate place for everybody. Students without deep curiosity and a hunger for knowledge will not enjoy the university experience. Students who only wish to develop job skills and those who do not value knowledge for its own sake will consider most of the coursework irrelevant and painfully boring. However, many students enjoy learning and value the experience regardless of the financial rewards they may reap.

Posted by: Al | Dec 3, 2005 3:20:55 PM

Al has the right attitude. If you're interested in job SKILLS you can get those quickly at a junior college or teach yourself. If you're 18, reasonably bright, and clueless about the world, college gives you 4 years to figure it out. If you're 22, very bright, and STILL clueless about the world...try grad school.

I earned undergraduate and graduate degrees in Anthropology, from cheap state schools with interesting research programs. I went on to a career in Archaeology that morphed into a career in information design. From my perspective this was an ideal education-to-career trajectory. Virtually all the "experts" I know studied something completely unrelated to their current vocation (or studied nothing at all in the traditional sense.) I would go so far as to recommend to young archaeologists that they should study something other than archaeology!

http://www.axoplasm.com/index.php?pieceID=220

Posted by: Paul | Dec 5, 2005 4:04:13 PM

I am 15 years old, and I'm a sophomore in High School. I hate it,and not in the traditional sense that kids hate school and work. I hate that pressure to get good grades for the sole purpose of getting into college and getting a high paying job. College students come and go, but they never learn a thing. I know I don't need much money to be happy. And while I still haven't found that one thing I want to do that I would be happy with, I know that college will not get me there. Too bad my parents don't understand that, they will, but not yet. After reading this it totally backs up everything I've been thinking about and I think I am inspired to truly try and find something that I'm passionate about and I would be happy to do after High School.

Posted by: Ilya | Dec 11, 2005 11:26:05 PM

College is a great way to "learn how to learn" and to grow socially. I might only use a few of the classes I took in my everyday work, but I would hapily do all four years over again if I could.

Posted by: Professor Dave | Dec 19, 2005 2:27:54 PM

I stumbled upon this post regarding colleges. Your post is old and I don't mean to revive this, but maybe I can pitch in a little something of my own.

http://www.martynemko.com/pub/articles/higher-education_1.shtm

Posted by: Bryan | Jun 7, 2006 6:28:45 PM

We have the opportunity of choice of what we can be in our future but the issue on money or passion is another. Many people choose a career that will make them a lot more money but in the end choosing the job less in money can lead to a happier life.

Posted by: online college expert | Oct 27, 2006 9:28:23 AM

I come from a ridiculously educated family, so I am incapable (probably on a cellular level) of never attending college. It just wasn't a question while I was growing up. So for myself, I can't imagine my life without higher education. However, I am now 33 years old and have two young children of my own. Based on observations of my own life as well as the lives of people I'm close to, I've slowly come to this realization: college is not necessarily necessary. Catchy, yes? I'm going to carve that into a rock somewhere...Seriously, I have kids, and I worry that my family or society in general will somehow pressure them to go out there and get a degree come hell or high water. Why?

I'm trying to figure out why I spent so much time and energy and cash on my degree and a half. I love school, I love learning. If someone would pay me to go to college I'd be deliriously happy. But we all know liking something does not make it necessary. My father is a self-taught Renaissance man (he is the black sheep of the family, on both sides). He's smart enough to make most degree-wielding smart folks feel stupid. He can teach himself anything, he can use the knowledge to build something correctly and fully functional, and he has one of those memories which make me want to cry with frustration--he can recall specifics from the engineering text he read 20 years ago and explain the theory to you in a way that you'll understand it OR he'll apply the information correctly in a real-life situation. He never finished college because for him it wasn't necessary.

What about college is necessary? Learning how to learn is probably the top of the list. The mind-opening, the experiences, all to the good. There are certainly some careers which require coursework or even full degrees in that subject (architecture, law, engineering, medicine all spring to mind as obvious examples). But I'm pretty sure that jumping right into college as soon as you graduate from high school is not necessary. I think that college later or even college in bits and pieces (as you need it) is a viable option.

I'm still fine-tuning my college philosophy so I can give my kids decent advice someday, but this is what I've come up wth so far. They are five and one, so I have time.

Posted by: alexa Harrington | Jan 18, 2007 8:58:47 PM

Not too many years into the future:

"Hi! I'm Skyler Sierra, and you're watching "Vegetarian Cooking with Skyler" here on the Food Network!"

And THEN, Kathy, you can gloat, "She ALWAYS did seem so bright...just like her mom..." :-)

Posted by: T.G. | Jan 20, 2007 5:43:12 PM

There are many ways to approach life and find success. I pulled off a 5 year architectural degree at a state university and have been an Architect since 1975. If I had not gotten that degree, I could not have become an AIA, NCARB, registered architect. I'd instead, be in the back "drafting" room, doing CAD work at half the pay. Many careers of "passion" have requirements and sometimes those requirements include a college degree. I don't think I'd have brain surgery under the knife of a wonderful, successful, passionate non-degree surgeon. Yea, let them figure out what they want to really do and if college is not a requirement then let them go for it.

Posted by: Dan | Feb 18, 2007 7:43:46 PM

http://www.nextstudentnetwork.com

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Posted by: Payday Loans | Aug 9, 2007 9:39:56 PM

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