« Become the thing that replaces you | Main | Sometimes the magic is in the imperfections »
Tech t-shirts aren't sexy enough

I've been to seven JavaOne conferences. I've paid more than $10,000 of my own money, just for the attendance fee. You'd think--just once--they'd give me a show shirt that didn't hide the fact that I have, say, breasts. You'd think--just once--they'd take part of the $2000 entrance fee and spend, oh, .1% extra to print up some shirts that sub-6-foot folks can wear. And it's not just Sun's JavaOne show, of course--practically every tech company out there is guilty. If I had a dime for every booth vendor who's smiled and said , "Here, you can sleep in it!", I'd be typing this from my ocean-front villa. (Pssst--tech companies: most of us women don't sleep in anything, but I digress...)
The formula we've done to death on this blog is pretty simple:
How are you helping your users kick ass?
I put "helping them look good" in the "kicking ass" category.
But that's not even the point. The point is showing us that you care about more than just saving a few bucks on a t-shirt print run. That you care about ALL your users, not just the Big Burly Men. And even if you do not care, you'd think the marketers would get a clue that people aren't going to be wearing your logo around giving you free advertising if the shirt doesn't fit.
The bar's been set pretty low on this, so even a MEN'S SMALL would make me happy. But Webstock went all the way to give the gals women's shirts. I actually wear mine all the time. I've even been photographed wearing it at another conference.
I so don't want a lecture on logistics or saving money by making shirts for the largest common denominator. And I don't want to hear that, after all, it IS mostly men at these things. So what if you have some leftover shirts? Give them out at other tech events. Send them to user groups. Donate them to a homeless shelter.
Yes, you could argue that as a web-focused show rather than a pure programming event, Webstock was likely to have more women than JavaOne, so it made sense. And that's true, but doesn't explain why I also got a fitted, flattering, rather sexy blue tee at GUADEC (the GNOME user's and developer's european conference) which was not expecting but a very few women attendees. But they treated us like we mattered too. Like we weren't the tacked-on not-really-target-audience people. Besides, this isn't even a gender thing... it's a SIZE thing. There are plenty of men who don't look that much better in an XXL Hanes Beefy T than I do.
This is partly tongue-in-cheek, but still...the t-shirts are a metaphor for--or at least a reflection of--the way the company feels about users as individual people. The shirts matter, and they speak volumes about your company.
And hey, tech companies, I AM available to beta test your freshly-minted women's T's (size small or x-small). In fact, for any tech company that tells me they'll be keeping plenty of women's shirts on hand for trade shows, user groups, etc., I'll post a picture of the shirt on this blog. But it better make me look good. ; )
Posted by Kathy on December 15, 2006 | Permalink
TrackBack
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/220252/7181161
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Tech t-shirts aren't sexy enough:
» conference t-shirts from apophenia
::laugh:: I just opened Kathy Sierra's blog where she talks about what conference t-shirts say about how the organization feels about its users. It's a funnier post but what's funnier is that i happen to be wearing my Webstock t-shirt today. And at Le ... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 16, 2006 4:44:00 PM
» The Problem with T-Shirts from AlfredTwo
Most places (conferences, special events etc) that give out t-shirts tend to give out XL Men's t-shirts.... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 16, 2006 6:01:37 PM
» Kathy breasts Sierra on baggy tech tee-shirts from The Warne Account
Kathy Sierra is frustrated that the t-shirts handed out at tech conferences hide the fact that she has breasts.
I can confirm that shes right. When I went to Microsoft Windows Hardware Engineering Conference (WinHEC) in Seattle recently, I was... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 17, 2006 12:56:16 AM
» Caring for the people from Greg's Weblog
I really like this blog from Kathy Sierra called Creating Passionate Users. She has a lot of stuff about marketing and sales but the general concepts are OFTEN very relevant to us in schooling/education. This post from today is about... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 17, 2006 1:23:32 AM
» Linkpost | 12.17.2006 from TechBlog
• Time's Person of the Year- You • Hackers Selling Vista Zero-Day Exploit • Tech t-shirts aren't sexy enough • Microsoft turns up the heat on Windows 2000 users-- Upgrade or die • Microsoft patches Windows XP wireless, tells no... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 17, 2006 9:35:28 AM
» we're workin' on it from Asa Dotzler - Firefox and more
We actually made a real effort with our Firefox Summit and Firefox Pary tees to get this right (or at least better.)... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 17, 2006 3:41:41 PM
» How to Gain Passionate Users from Hasan Diwan on the Web!
Kathy Sierra rants about how the distribution of sizes in tech t-shirts leaves much to be desired. As a gentleman who stands 153 cm on a good day, I have to agree. One company does need mentioning though. When I... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 18, 2006 3:03:20 PM
» Understand your clients when picking sizes from Indigo Clothing Blog
Image Source: Creating Passionate Users
Kathy Sierra, over at the Creating Passionate Users blog, makes an excellent point which anyone buying t-shirts for an event should take notice of. In fact, if you dont have time to read her post just ch... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 20, 2006 4:47:55 AM
Comments
Yeah, that XXL Tee might be too big for most, but at 6'7" and being built more like a football player than basketball player, an XXL -- if they even offer it -- is a "wear once, wash once" garment. By the time it comes out of the dryer, it becomes a paint shirt for the Mrs.
Since your average *store* doesn't even carry my size clothing, a vendor's unusable schwag at a trade show rarely burns my shorts is when my *employer* doesn't think to supply shirts for everyone. My current employer supplied a big-enough button down shirt for me at a trade show (although a much smaller colleague called hers a "tarp" for is huge size and plastic-y feel), but at a previous company's project completion celebration, they tried to foist an XL on me. The conversation went like this:
Me: "Do you have any XXXL or XXL-Tall?"
Them: "You should try the Extra Large -- it's really big!"
Me: "That's what Extra Large means. I'm really, really, really big... and tall. I was last merely really big when I was 13."
Way to make your employees feel valued -- exclude some of them from the commonality of sharing a T-shirt.
Posted by: joelfinkle | Dec 15, 2006 10:42:23 PM
Meebo sent me a shirt. I was expecting the usual superlame tech T, but instead received a (sweatshop free!) American Apparel shirt, with a tasteful logo placed in the middle of the chest, and a small URL towards the neckline of the shirt. Instantly I knew why these people have a great product. They care about quality.
Posted by: Aaron Schmidt | Dec 15, 2006 10:49:54 PM
Ok,
perhaps you'll allow me, as a long time reader to shamelessly plug skreened.com for these tech shirts. As it is my company. But i also have something to add to the discussion.
A fitted tee is the very least conferences can do for their female attendees. Also, from an environmental point of view a well designs shirt not only gets 'impressions' but they also don't need to be turned into something to wash the car with when people get home.
oh, and responding to the comments, I print almost exclusivly on american apparel, and my process is great for people who want small quantities.
[endShamelessPlug]
Posted by: daniel fox | Dec 15, 2006 11:02:33 PM
Joel, I never thought about it from the perspective of an employee -- but that's even MORE important. What you said here is a really important idea:
"Way to make your employees feel valued -- exclude some of them from the commonality of sharing a T-shirt."
Aaron: thanks for that example! It really does seem like there's a mapping between the t-shirt and the products/service. And even when there's not, we still THINK there is.
Daniel: Thank you for stepping in to let us know you have a company that can help! I'm going to check out skreened... I'm just not happy with what you can do Cafepress style, great as it is.
Posted by: Kathy Sierra | Dec 15, 2006 11:49:56 PM
Well, just so happens I'm wearing my small men's Webstock t-shirt right now. It's the first time I've worn it since the conference (I usually don't like t-shirts much), but yeah, it looks damn good! And not many conferences offer you anything smaller than medium, so I was pleasantly surprised when I did have the option for a smaller mens size. The Webstock design and logo placement is very cool too!
Posted by: Zef | Dec 16, 2006 12:33:50 AM
Oh so true...
I have a drawer full of exceedingly nerdy huge t-shirts from when I used to go to trade shows, and a bunch of DEC Alpha stuff. They were useful in college when I got them. Thinking of making a quilt out of them one day if I ever figure out how to hack the antique sewing machine.
Oddly enough, a Sun booth once gave me a men's small.
Posted by: candice | Dec 16, 2006 1:02:09 AM
Swag shirts are generally cheap and as one-size-fits-all as possible, to cut down on costs. I like how women are all into equality until it comes time to put on something that doesn't highlight their brain containers.
Posted by: Idiot | Dec 16, 2006 1:03:06 AM
Hey Kathy,
Ryan back finally. As you know, my previous company we originally met when you spoke at, they do not do t-shirts at all.
Now, I have a new company - one making all the news. Google of course. Now, in terms of local swag, Google does runs of both girl t-shirts and guy t-shirts in a variety of sizes. Staff are pretty good about supplying as many sizes of each as possible, EVEN for swag type things. Of course you can always spend your own hard earned cash (look for 'google store') and get properly sized google ts. Although just attend enough google-sponsored events and you'll get one for free anyways.
Going from no-tshirt land to uber-tshirt land (my GF is wearing a girl-t that I grabbed because no guy ts were left), I must say the change is ... wonderful. It's a whole culture shift, but it's really kind of like the employer version of your blog. "Creating Passionate Employees" - maybe I need to start that blog? Or maybe you need a new sub-section, I'll guest write :-) I went from total polar opposites of the spectrum and I am pretty pissed that I spent so many years in the suck.
Posted by: ryan | Dec 16, 2006 1:39:41 AM
I'm wondering what you think about the idea of protective camouflage? Surely that's not what the organizers of JavaOne were thinking, but I have noticed a trend in what people wear.
Me? I just skip on the free T-shirts altogether and pack clothes that I know are flattering.
Posted by: Simon Law | Dec 16, 2006 2:37:17 AM
A couple of weeks ago, Maryam Scoble delivered a whole bunch of small T shirts to a girl geek dinner in London on just that basis.
Posted by: John Dodds | Dec 16, 2006 2:49:48 AM
In the good old days of bubble 1.0 I attended to a game publisher event and they arranged some kind of "beach party" including the ability for some swimming and surfing an artificial wave.
They were giving away both robes, towels and so on. The boys were getting blue shorts for swimming and the girls got a HUGE selection (like a small shop they created) of various bikinis and swimsuits. The event obviously got managed by a girl knowing how bad a non-fitting top can be (not that I could imagine).
Nevertheless some female press members left in protest for this being a sexist event. Interestingly particulary the skinny-blond type who would look great in it - most of the "have-some-pounds-too-much" girls had no problem with it.
So sometimes "helping them look good" can backfire if it turns into "forcing them into something".
Posted by: mikx | Dec 16, 2006 3:15:11 AM
Small people scare me.
-grant, 6'8" 235 lbs.
Posted by: grant | Dec 16, 2006 5:12:56 AM
If you're going to do T shirts that fit both ends of the bell curve, you're going to have to ask people to pre-order their size - AND STATE THE INCH MEASUREMENT. Which means not using cheap-ass T shirt blanks. Even Threadless' women's T in the largest size doesn't fit me - when I can happily wear far less than the equivalent size from any normal US outlet like Old Navy. You need to pay for something properly sized, which costs more so you need to check how many of which you need. As a journalist I'm not that agitated; I have a ton of T shirts from events but I wea clothes I've bought because they look good. I also have a project for when I next have some spare time, to turn 3 or 4 badly sized shirts with spiffy designs into one very spiffy shirt.
The other thing is - why just T shirts? UK firm Dr Solomon's made great play with giving away socks - would you wear Alan Solomon's socks? He could take a couple of pairs in his pockets and give them out, say when he won an award and handed a pair to the Prince of Wales... A nice Hawaiin shirt? A fleece jacket. A scarf - something I've never seen. Something that really embodies your brand.
But it's easy for the company T shirt thing to go creepy. The idea of all the Google folk wearing their free T Google shirts and drinking their free Google soda and eating their free Google barbecue makes me look for the bottle of free Google coolaid..
Posted by: Mary Branscombe | Dec 16, 2006 5:43:14 AM
I have ranted to my poor husband about this very topic many times before!
The latest bad move I saw at a conference was SIGGRAPH, where there are just as many artsy-types as techie-types in attendance, maybe more. Although the population is still male-heavy, there are certainly plenty of women.
So what did they sell for T-shirts? The standard male-sized shirts AND kids' shirts! Really now-- if you're spending money to make kids' shirts for a conference where there might be ONE kid in attendance and maybe a handful of parents who'll buy them as souvenirs, wouldn't that money be better spent on providing WOMEN something good to wear? These T-shirts weren't even free-- you had to buy them. Argh!
So, I did what I've previously done in these situations... I bought the largest kid-sized T-shirt they had. Unfortunately, the neck was so tight that I could barely breathe, but at least it was something that looked halfway decent.
Posted by: Natasha Lloyd | Dec 16, 2006 5:53:30 AM
Hey Kathy, good article - but good pic too, it really gets the point across. You look good on the left!
Posted by: Jeff | Dec 16, 2006 6:23:53 AM
I think this is the shirt you're looking for.
Plus, I hear they'll be handing out these at the next RailsConf.
Enjoy!
- Dan
Posted by: Daniel Berger | Dec 16, 2006 6:26:46 AM
You are right on, Kathy. A generic sized shirt is ok but something just a little step above is so much better - as long as the folks creating the shirt keep as many different types of people in mind, as possible.
The tiny elexa tshirts at blogher were horrid and fit almost nobody in attendance but the more generic sized style-feeder shirts were excellent because they were more fitted than a normal fits all shirt AND they had v-necks.
Posted by: Denise | Dec 16, 2006 6:30:57 AM
As long as everybody's getting a shirt that fits her or him, let me put in a word for another segment of the population: In case you haven't noticed, a lot of IT people are... er, "big." I am not only "big" but "tall." This leads me to two gripes:
1) Most XXL short-sleeve shirts fit pretty well, but believe it or not, I find shows often run out of them. This is especially galling if the show asked for my t-shirt size on the registration form (which, really, every show should if they're handing out shirts.)
2) There's no way to say this and not make it sound like a flame, so I'm just going to say it: Those American Apparel shirts everybody likes now suck if you're not dangerously skinny. They make one feel like a sausage. Giving me one of these is a good way to guarantee I won't wear it.
Actually, the most comfortable t-shirts I've worn over the years come from, believe it or not, naturist (nudist) conventions. Why? Well, since they don't like wearing clothes at all, they make the stuff they actually do wear as comfortable as possible. Somewhat like programmers scratching their own itches in writing code, no?
Posted by: Mark | Dec 16, 2006 7:45:17 AM
Oh Kathy -- Certainly nobody could be said to be more in favor of breasts than I. The problem is that if you try to produce a flattering shirt you will almost certainly fail for 90% of the women at the conference.
Each year I produce between 1500 and 2100 shirts on behalf of a dozen or so sponsors. We give the shirts away at the Lotusphere event in Orlando. We buy regular sizes and shapes - nothing contoured or curve hugging because frankly it raises the cost too high and would force me to consider what an appropriate amount of sexiness in a conference t-shirt is. I have a wife and three daughters, yet womens' sizes remain a complete and utter mystery to me. Perhaps if you created a "Head First Womens' Clothing Sizes" book it might help.
Here's how I handle sizes:
I have all the shirts bagged in lots of 30. Each bag of 30 contains 4 Small, 5 Medium, 9 Large, 10 Extra Large, and 2 Extra Extra Large. Each sponsor gets 4 bags.
We also give each sponsor a bag of high quality rubber bands with enough of each color that they can roll the shirts and wrap the small with red, medium with orange, large with yellow, xl with green, and xxl with blue. The order matches the colors in the rainbow. That allows a sponsor to reach down and grab a shirt knowing what size he or she is handing out without wasting time looking at the label.
I also order 5 shirts in the 4x or 5x size. There are a few people at the show who need these and can see me directly (sponsors are aware of them). These people (all men, so far as I know) are enormously grateful as are the (mostly women) who get the small and medium shirts.
These are not cheap shirts to make - we buy good quality shirts and do 4 color screening on both front and back as well as both sleeves. I can tell you then, that there is no additional cost to vary the sizes except for the 4x and 5x ones which cost an extra dollar each.
I've gone on with way too much detail to make the simple point that there is no valid reason not to vary the sizes at a conference according to an easily figured out demographic distribution of sizes.
Posted by: Andrew Pollack | Dec 16, 2006 7:51:45 AM
I should add one more comment about sizes. Sizes aren't the same.
Aside from being a geek programmer type, I'm also a firefighter.
In any other venue, for any other product, I wear XL. I'm a 5'9" 200# man with a 48" jacket size and 34" waist. That's XL pretty much all the way around.
In firefighter gear -- gloves, turnout coat, etc.. I'm a Medium. These are big boys. Even my size 13 shoes are right in the middle of the road when it comes to fire boots.
:-)
Posted by: Andrew Pollack | Dec 16, 2006 8:10:34 AM
Well, I say "T-shirts are underwear."
This is one of my pet peeves. What's with the T-shirt culture? Pseudo-egalitarian dress at best.
Posted by: Chris Ryland | Dec 16, 2006 8:45:13 AM
Damn! That shirt looks good on you!
Another bonus is that if all the women look that great at conferences, more men will want to show up!
I'm not saying, I'm just saying...
Posted by: Kent | Dec 16, 2006 8:46:42 AM
Kathy, I so feel this. I haven't gotten a tee that fits from any company these past 10 years of being in the 'net space. The closest I came was when I was at ELNK back in 2000 - I was able to get a mens medium.
I can't even think of the last time I wore a branded tee. I now ask: do you have a baseball hat?
You would think that companies would understand that I'll only wear it and provide you with free branding if you make me look good.
Great post.
Posted by: Tamera Kremer | Dec 16, 2006 9:29:24 AM
Completely agree as a small female geek myself. Fitted Ts are not hard to make, as Jinx sells quite alot of them (I have more than a dozen myself from Jinx). They're called baby Ts and women look darn good in them.
For a $2K conf fee, I'd think making a shirt that can fit, say women, would be worth the extra effort.
Posted by: Robyn Tippins | Dec 16, 2006 9:43:20 AM
Having been in charge of schwag for corporate events, I can say with resignation that you can make EVERY effort - men's shirts, women's shirts, t-shirts, dressier shirts, asking sizes, providing approximate measurements... and you will still get people who will bitch. Ordered the wrong size, delusional about the size they think they are and ending up with a shirt that doesn't fit, women who decide they want a men's shirt, don't like the colour/style/logo, and people who simply do not fit on the available spectrum (sorry, within the limitations of our suppliers, 3-4X is often the best we can do...)
Speaking as a woman who does NOT fit a small or x-small shirt (which is the majority of us), and who has been burned trying to buy women's American Apparel (which is made for dolls, though, oddly, the unisex is well within the normal clothing size spectrum), while making an effort to provide women's shirts is nice, much like you're often out of luck looking for a men's small, you're also out of luck looking for a women's XL or larger. Having breasts and acknowledging that is one thing, having someone's logo stretched obscenely across them so people become apparently incapable of looking me in the eye is something else.
Posted by: Melle | Dec 16, 2006 12:34:11 PM
I like those free t-shirts -- when they fit. I can usually count the number of women who attend the computer shows here on the fingers of one hand.
One of the problems is that sizes vary among manufacturers. I've always been of large proportions (my family includes both curves and good cooks) and have gained some (more) weight recently. My bust measurement is 49". Here's a small sample from the closet, all size XL:
1) Microsoft TechNet shirt from about a year ago: black, M&O KNits, Technet logo on left upper chest and URL on back. Very good fit, soft feel, but I tend to claw at the neckline. URL is hidden by my hair, which extends almost to mid back.
2) Autocad 2000 shirt: white, Fruit of the Loom Loftee, Autocad logo on left upper chest and red and white design on back. Fit is ok, not too spectacular, looser neckline, a bit scratchy, back design also hidden by hair.
3) Microsoft Vista Launch shirt from last week: black, Fruit of the Loom Heavy, semi-soft, sunrise design on front and heaps of logos all over the back. Sunrise goes right across the headlights. Tried not to laugh when I first put it on. Apparently both L and XL were given out at random. My two (male skinny) colleagues got L, one gave to the wife and the other to his daughter.
4) Phantom of the Opera: (Purchased I believe) black, Roots Athletics, mask design on front and Roots logo on sleeve. Very baggy fit which seems to get worse with every wash. Not suitable for wearing outside the house.
I work for a univeristy. When I poked around the bookstore to buy myself a T-shirt with the univ name, there was exactly one XL shirt: lavender, boat neckline, name written large across chest, and cropped/babydoll style so you see a little tummy. Suitable for boiling hot summer days, probably not an office with mixed company. but yes I did buy it! Gobs of shirts in XS though.
One of my favorite design shirts was from Lotus (back when it was still Lotus and not a division of IBM). It was white with purple lettering, the front had a sketch like a cinema with a big marquee: Lotus for Windows World Tour and a list of all the cities on the back, like a rock concert shirt.
And speaking of color: why does it always have to be BLACK or WHITE? What happened to all those other nice colors? OK maybe everyone can't wear eye popping purple (I have a hand-painted one that says I Love Cake Decorating) but some variety would be nice.
I go to a cake decorating convention every year in the USA where the souvenir T-shirt has all but disappeared, replaced with polo shirts. This trend started some years ago when the team advertising the next year's convention showed up in matching snazzy shirts, which they practically sold off their backs. Many plus-size women attend this convention and the polo shirts are readily available in 2x, 3x, etc. And in nice colors like dark green, violet, and royal blue.
My American bf, whom I have borrowed sweatshirts from that fit me snugly, has been given the odd promo T-shirt that doesn't fit him, or he does not care for the outfit that gave it to him. So he cuts them up as gun rags.
Posted by: Rosemary | Dec 16, 2006 12:43:47 PM
Hi Kathy, I had the same problem, but I started redesigning my tech conference t-shirts myself =)
I have a couple of people who wants me to redesign their t-shirts for them too ( both men and women)...
I think it's an excellent niche - amongst the other things I do... but redesigning the t-shirts really works for me...
you can see them here : http://www.23hq.com/redsoda/album/821136
Posted by: Henriette weber andersen | Dec 16, 2006 1:09:40 PM
Ok Ladies -- Help me out here.
I know women are different sizes. I've made a personal study of the subject since about the 7th grade.
I know that many women - particularly those who are young, thin, and confident in their appearance like clothes that compliment -- however, I also know that this is NOT the majority of adult women.
Like most men, most women over 30 are not all the way pleased with how the look in tight clothes. As a man, I'm in fairly good shape, yet I have no illusions that I should be walking around in a small French bathing suit.
I also know this -- even the most attractive young women I know are split in unpredictable (and frequently changing) sides between those who would be happy to be given a sexy shirt from a conference and those who would be insulted and angry.
That means to do what you ask, and not just do sizes but add these "baby doll" style things would mean that less than 20% of the women and probably less than 1% of the conference attendees would appreciate getting one. About half the women would find the idea insulting, and a good number would just be left out.
That's not my idea of a good give away.
I'm glad to make the effort to order regular t-shirts in a variety of sizes. Beyond that, it's a major problem of diminishing or even negative returns.
Posted by: Andrew Pollack | Dec 16, 2006 2:55:24 PM
Andrew, I don't think the shirts have to be baby dolls in order to be stylish or fit properly.
I actually was coming back to add to my previous comment as I made a mistake. The Mesh guys had a great way of dealing with the issue for the conference last May in Toronto. When you register you pick your tee size - all the same design but with sizes ranging from XS-XXL.
Worked for me and they knew exactly how many of each size to order ahead of the event.
Posted by: Tamera Kremer | Dec 16, 2006 3:19:00 PM
Daniel: that, uh, "validation" shirt was hilarious : )
Henreitte: You've totally inspired me! Those pictures are VERY fun. I've thought about the quilt idea that someone else mentioned, especially because some of these t-shirts are from special one-off events or groups or products that I actually care about, but in the spirit of DIY, maybe I'll try for something I can actually wear. You're awesome.
Rosemary: excellent point on the color. But I'd still rather have black than white.
Melle: I think there should simply be a selection, and everyone--everyone--picks what best suits them. Like I said, I'd be happy even with just a men's small -- but one of the huge differences between men's and women's t's is that the mens are so much longer. Most women--regardless of size--have much shorter torsos and proportionately longer legs than men, so even a men's small is still way too long, even if the rest fits OK.
Andrew: Whoa there cowboy -- I never said anything about "baby doll" shirts. There's a world of difference between a "woman's fitted" shirt (the Webstock shirt I have on in the photo) and a baby doll tee, and I don't know ANY women who'd be offended/insulted/angry by a women's shirt--as long as the organizers didn't assume that ALL women are extra-small. True, I said in my post that the shirts "aren't sexy enough", but by "sexy", I meant "anything other than a gender-hiding tent."
While it's true that you'll never be able to make everyone happy, a lot of vendors have done a good job of the 80/20 on this.
As I said, I'd even be happy with just a plain old Men's Small. But even as different as different women may be, women aren't built like men (thankfully!) and I've never met a woman who is insulted, offended, or angered by the fact that there are separate clothing lines and styles and cuts for women and men.
So in this case, "sexy" just means recognizing that men aren't the only sex ; )
Tamera: Yes, that really IS all a conference needs to do -- forget the women's sizes and just make sure there's enough of the biggest range you can get, for everyone to have a size that's reasonably close to their actual size. Yes, there will always be some people who don't fall in those boundaries, but still -- enough-sizes-to-fit-90% is much better than the one-size-fits-all-but-really-doesn't most of them use now.
Thanks everyone!
Posted by: Kathy Sierra | Dec 16, 2006 4:42:58 PM
See, Kathy -- Just by misunderstanding the difference between the "fitted" shirt and the "babydoll" shirt in my post, I was able to mess up the point of my post. The funny thing is, that itself is exactly my point.
I make an effort to treat the women I work with no differently in any meaningful respect than the men I work with. In a perfect world, I'd be able to say that I work in a totally gender-blind way. I wish that were more true than it is, of course. The likelihood of getting the interaction wrong by when stepping out of that attempt at gender blindness is 'dangerous' to the goal of trying to make the most people happy.
I'll stick with what I'm doing -- ordering a wide range of sizes and staying entirely gender neutral.
Call me a coward if you like. ;-)
Posted by: Andrew Pollack | Dec 16, 2006 6:56:33 PM
Boy, do I agree with this post!
My question to the marketing folks at these companies, is whatever happened to 'sex sells'?
At consumer electronics shows, they pay attractive women to wear too-tight clothing with the company logo on it, yet at tech conferences they rarely have a shirt to fit most women.
I'm a reasonably attractive female who knows the product and I'll wear a shirt with a big logo for free if they make it in my size. Surely it's worth spending a few dollars to get the hot young geek chicks advertising the product for you?
*sarcasm* Oh hang on, there aren't any attractive women who actually work in the IT industry... right?
Posted by: The Bargain Queen | Dec 16, 2006 7:08:10 PM
Andrew: You are very, very smart : )
You're a lot more thoughtful about this than most, and I don't blame you for wanting to play it safe, and heaven knows there are women who'll certainly take offense to my even bringing this up. It is hard to win in the gender thing, because there's very little agreement (just look at Blogher for all the [thankfully] diverse and often polarized opinions related to fashion, for example) about which is more sexist: gender-blind or gender-specific. I'm not a good representative for how women feel about this because I'm almost impossible to offend and I enjoy being female AND I enjoy being a programming geek.
Yeah, I think you're being quite smart about this!
Bargain Queen: Exactly -- you'd think that the marketers would be all over this one. I worked for a big fitness center in California a long time ago, and the owner made a decision to NOT sell any outside logo clothes like Nike, Reebok, etc. and sell ONLY things with their own slogans and logos. He was ahead of his time on user participation and let the members design clever slogans and made very limited edition print runs on everything, and they always immediately sold out and people fought to get them (some of them were only given away and could not be bought). Point of the story: he sold the business when doctors said the stress was killing him, and he used the money to buy a huge sail boat and spend a couple years sailing through the south pacific. And one day, on a tiny remote part of Fiji, he saw someone walking down the road in one of his t-shirts.
I appreciate the sarcasm, too ; )
Posted by: Kathy Sierra | Dec 16, 2006 7:46:29 PM
Um....As someone who is a 40DD, an XL in women's t-shirt sizes is too tight for me. Or, will make everyone stare.
I try to play down the boobage in general, so I can get people to talk to my face. I'd much prefer the loose guy's shirt, even if then you can't tell I have a small waist.
Also, I totally agree that American Apparel is designed for very skinny women--anyone with a few curves is SOL.
Bah humbug! Bring back Marilyn Monroe-shaped women (and clothing for them)!
:D
Posted by: bug_girl | Dec 16, 2006 8:41:18 PM
bug girl: "Bring back Marilyn Monroe-shaped women (and clothing for them)!"
Well said! This is about curves, not absolute size... : )
Posted by: Kathy Sierra | Dec 16, 2006 10:11:44 PM
There's no way to write this comment without sounding slightly creepy, but we've definitely reaped the benefits of having mens and womens shirts at Northern Voice (www.northernvoice.ca), our Canadian blogging conference. Here are some examples:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?s=int&q=bloggable+&m=text
Posted by: Darren | Dec 16, 2006 11:24:07 PM
I am a geek. I am a gamer. I am a rockclimber. I am a fencer.
I am female!
Kathy, I completely related to your story. All the categories above are dominated by men and I have the t-shirts to "prove it". In one of those strange life twists I've become a journalist for the video game industry. I get my share fair share of free t-shirts... But I'll never forget that one, only one, has given me a baby doll shirt... in my size.
PLUG: I own my own geek / gamer shop, OffLineTshirts.com, and I provide nearly* every design in there on FEMALE options as well as unisex and male styles. When I opened my shop I was the ONLY geek or gamer oriented shop that offered such a variety of items for girls as well as guys. Other shops usually didn't carry any women designed clothing, even venerable Think Geek had only a few baby doll shirts available for a handful of designs. When I opened my shop I didn't care that men dominated my markets, I cared that women were also in it and I remembered how I felt when I saw the lack of selection.
Anyway, there's my shameless plug and my agreement with ya, I'll be sending a shirt your way if you'll have one, but you'll have to choose from around 9 different styles of items though and even more color choices ;)
*I say "nearly" because some designs include male oriented language, in which case I created a female version. I also have designs for children only or that are for non apparel items.
Posted by: Eileen | Dec 17, 2006 1:29:27 AM
When I posted recommendations on where to get t-shirts, stickers and buttons made, I also shared the sizing breakdown we do when doing new orders now.
If it helps anyone here was out last order.
100 women’s shirts: XL - 10, L - 40, M - 30, S - 20 (AmericanApparel brand)
100 men’s t-shirts: XXL - 6, XL - 24, L - 30, M - 20, S - 20 (Jerzees brand)
Though, I have to say that American Apparel besides being sexist has huge inventory problems and the alst three orders have had backorder issues. Even though a lot of women tell me it's their preferred t, we'll never be ordering from them again.
Posted by: Ted Rheingold | Dec 17, 2006 1:49:08 AM
Being a woman of course doesn't mean being small. Many women wear XL, I've loved a number in fact. :) Being invisible because you're not considered an ideal woman is another issue in addition to being invisible because you're not a man.
Posted by: Marshall Kirkpatrick | Dec 17, 2006 2:05:27 AM
It's all pretty academic over here in Italy - no one except a few hard-core supergeeks (like the programmers who work with me) wears t-shirts with big logos in public except maybe at the beach. I have a zillion t-shirts that I ONLY wear in bed, and for that I do like large sizes.
That said, I could probably get away with that Webstock one - it's stylish enough to wear with jeans even in Milan. (Everybody sing now: "I'm too sexy for my shirt...")
Posted by: Deirdre' Straughan | Dec 17, 2006 5:42:54 AM
Andrew: How long does it take do do an extra print run? I was thinking of the possibility to print some extra shirts after the convention has started.
So, if there were no shirts in your size when you checked in to the conference, the clerk would say "sorry, we're out of that size for now, but if you like we can fix one for you, and you can swing by here tomorrow and pick it up." This would help both people with odd sizes, as well as common sizes running out.
This wouldn't be a humongous print run, all preproduction would have been done already, and the printer would know in advance when the printing would need to be done, so it doesn't feel entirely impossible to pull off. But I'm just guessing here.
Also, on the topic of shirt brands - are there brands that provide shirts for people with long torsos? I often have to resort to XL or XXL because the L that fits best tend to go babydoll on me after the first wash... (In some cases getting a shirt which is both wide and short.)
Posted by: Anders | Dec 17, 2006 9:14:12 AM
While well-fitting tech shirts for women at a trade show may be too tough to do, surely a well-fitting shirt for PAYING attendees at a user conference is not!
You're right Kathy, techies pay 4 figures for certain conferences. So what if I, as the host of said conference, have to pay retail if necessary to give you a REAL t-shirt? Just add space on the registration form to enter REAL gender-specific shirt-sizes, and enjoy.
And, yes Kathy, as others have noted, no duh, you look great in your Webstock shirt (but who's the frump in the JavaOne shirt? ;-) That said, maybe you can shed some light in a future blog entry on why so many women eschew tech vocations...IIRC there is some effort out there to understand why so many young women lose interest in math and science, a concern I share as a father of daughters myself.
Posted by: Mikey | Dec 17, 2006 10:42:42 AM
Yes, I agree. I would like to see the 1% of attendees who are worthy of wearing a sexy t-shirt be given them [sarc].
Posted by: Doug Karr | Dec 17, 2006 11:03:42 AM
Hey Kathy-- come back to GUADEC next year... we've had women's t-shirts available for the past couple of years.
Posted by: numpty | Dec 17, 2006 11:24:22 AM
Hi Kathy,
I totally agree. After doing tshirts for Dabble for the past 9 months, and always having girl shirts (with breast room) and boy shirts (without breast room), I've realized how easy it is to have both.
Of course, we always wanted to have girl shirts, being a company of half women engineers and otherwise half women as well. Not to mention our many friends and family, customers and supports who are women.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maryhodder/325169816/
The shirts cost the same, and it's no trouble to manage or plan. Esther Dyson always had womens sizes (small woman's fit!) at PC Forum, which I very much appreciated. I don't think they did anything different from what we do, in estimating what shirts to get for the users.
It can be done easily. It just requires some thought.
Great post!
mary
Posted by: mary hodder | Dec 17, 2006 1:04:35 PM
In case you were wondering, Angela Vink from http://dna.co.nz was the designer for Webstock (also: of http://www.gretel.co.nz fame).
Posted by: Anon | Dec 17, 2006 1:34:19 PM
Could be ironic that I read this on reddit because they have great women's tees www.reddit.com
Posted by: lucy | Dec 17, 2006 1:54:38 PM
It's funny that you write about T-shirts, as I was just at Thomas Pink yesterday talking about how people in the Bay usually cannot dress (especially in technology).
T-shirts are for under other shirts or sleeping in - unless they are from True, or another T-shirt hip-hop store. And, even then, they are under another a button-down.
Posted by: Jeremy Pepper | Dec 17, 2006 3:37:05 PM
Wait, make swag shirts "more sexy?" So MORE women in tech will complain about it and start up the accusations of "objectifying women" once again? I think that sexier shirts would just backfire and would end up being a big PR snafu with the 'offending' corporation winding up apologizing to a totally unrelated feminist group.
As for the leftovers, I see PLENTY of them at Goodwill every time I'm down there volunteering.
Posted by: bob | Dec 17, 2006 3:37:22 PM
You could argue that the JavaOne T-shirts were designed to take into account for breasts, but not the kind anyone wants to show off .... man breasts ... created by the side effect of programming a monotinous overweight language, probably programmed by monotinous overweight programmers who don't get enough exercise and far too many caffine breaks ;-)
Posted by: Jase | Dec 17, 2006 3:40:52 PM
Just on a side note, before anyone takes my joking comment too seriously, I do realise that the stereotype in my last comment is a little far fetched (likewise it is highly biased towards my distaste/opinion towards Java as a language). If anything most programmers are on the skinny side, so it would certainly make sense for companies to make this consideration. It does seem very representative in my opinion of the fact that many larger tech companies seem to think that one size (big / XL) fits all. You only need to look at how bloated some of the software is out there made by them.
Posted by: Jase | Dec 17, 2006 3:53:19 PM
You go girl! I think the problem is, as far as the shirts go, is since America leads the world in obesity the JavaOne shirt you're wearing is probably the average size shirt. I mean, here in Los Angeles, we have billboards, tv commercials, radio commercials, encouraging people to stop eating so much.
Posted by: Jimmy | Dec 17, 2006 5:35:57 PM
What the world needs now is ...
more sexy t-shirts.
http://www.BitchRepublic.net
Posted by: Stenar | Dec 17, 2006 6:08:59 PM
I got some great shirts at ETECH last year -- the best was the microformats t -- Tantek Celic was giving them out and I think he had a surplus of women's t's ---> definitley get him to send you one.
Posted by: Arena | Dec 17, 2006 6:51:59 PM
I think most of the attendees at Java conferences would prefer to hide from the world the fact that they have breasts!
Posted by: alex | Dec 18, 2006 12:24:45 AM
Leave it to a woman to turn a tech conferenece into a fashion show!
Posted by: {blank} | Dec 18, 2006 4:12:40 AM
It may be tongue-and-cheek but my 'Microformats' t-shirt has sure been worn a lot around normal (non-geeky) environments.
And it has ended up on many of my flickr photos on holidays etc, simply because it's a super comfy t-shirt!
Good marketing for sure.
Posted by: Scott G | Dec 18, 2006 4:37:08 AM
One problem with ordering shirts is that, even if you try to get the sizes from the people when they register, you have folk coming to you and wanting to change their shirts anyway. So you end up having to have extras in every size, since people get really annoyed if you run out of something even if they didn't specifically request it. Which means that adding a potential choice increases your chance of being out of that specific size.
The other thing to consider is that if you give someone a larger shirt than they wanted, they're generally okay with it because they can use it for sleeping/carwashes/etc. A smaller shirt is useless. So if you're playing it safe, but don't have the budget to have a ton of spares, you'll slant the sizes larger.
Posted by: Richard | Dec 18, 2006 6:52:36 AM
certainly linux.conf.au 2007 (and 2008) should get it right - there's very cool geek girls really involved (and leading) the organising and I totally expect them to get it right.
(i totally agree there should be more options though)
Posted by: Stewart Smith | Dec 18, 2006 6:57:28 AM
You are lucky. I have attended several conferences and all I got was a lousy (not t-shirt) bag. Actually some of the bags were quite cool.
Posted by: Adam Ok | Dec 18, 2006 7:46:39 AM
Oh how I wish I could have better fitting tech shirts! My company brought an Apple trainer in (for a pretty hefty price tag) and he gave us each an XL Apple Training shirt. I would love to wear this shirt in public, but to do that requires me to tuck it into my jeans half way down my thighs. Even then the shirt sleeves come down to my elbows. In fact, as Jase pointed out above, programmers tend to be on the skinny side, and the people I work with fit that description. In fact, out of 12 programmers, only one of us can proudly wear this huge tee shirt to work and that's only because he's 6' 3" tall!
Some women's fit shirts would be nice, like in your picture, Kathy. *Not* babydoll tees - I bought three of those from Think Geek in a large (wanted to hide the tummy-that-has-held-three-kids) and even those are too small. I am like Rosemary where my hair tends to hide any URL or graphic on the back. For a good-fitting Apple training shirt, however, I'd be willing to put my hair in a ponytail when I wore it! :-)
Posted by: LanaB. | Dec 18, 2006 8:51:29 AM
I tend to have the problem outlined by one of the earlier commenters - I need a XXL so every time I get yet another "roomy" XL, my wife gets a new workout/painting/mowing the grass shirt. While I'm happy to increase her wardrobe, I'd rather be the one enjoying the spoils ;)
I find it interesting that a fairly large percentage of the men I see at conferences require larger sizes - so why aren't they offered? More importantly, why don't more conferences just *ask* what shirt size you need? Oh, and if you are going to offer a XXL, it should BE a XXL...not some cheap tissue paper like thing that actually runs two sizes smaller than advertised (it goes without saying that very few of us look good in the compression shirts that are all the rage with NFL linebackers).
The whole point of these shirts (for the conference) is advertising - you'd think it would be worth the company's time to get it right. I tend to wear the one's that fit (RailsConf, NFJS) all the time around my coworkers and other people that might actually attend said events...the others, well, I doubt too many people see the JavaOne shirt my wife wears to the gym and think "hey, I really should go to that next year." But I could be wrong.
Posted by: Nate Schutta | Dec 18, 2006 10:36:05 AM
In defense of the tech companies I am sure that many are aware that the tech community is not without its fair share of plus sized members, so it might just be a means of playing it on the safe side.
Posted by: Terrence Walker | Dec 18, 2006 11:59:35 AM
totes instead of t-shirts. First off, I am an academic, so the conferences I attend are a bit different. I have never gotten a t-shirt. I have gotten tote bags at several though, and I find these very handy. Many people walk around the conference toting stuff in them, and when you get home, you can tote other stuff in them (like groceries). Best of all, they are one size fits all.
Posted by: Rob | Dec 18, 2006 1:28:49 PM
What fascinates me about the whole giant tshirt from vendors thing is that it actually reflects poorly on themselves. The whole point of putting your logo on a tshirt is to have some advertisement wherever the person wearing it goes. Last I checked, 6ft tall 350lb people were not premo ad space. yeah, they get points for most room for ads, but not many people will give them a second look (don't blame me, blame society). Now, you get some shirts that fit well on people that look good, and you get a double wammy. First, people are going to look at the good looking folks naturally, it's human nature, THEN they will notice that person is wearing your companies shirt, and it looks proper. An XXL shirt on a S/M person makes that person look frumpy, so even a good looking person is at a loss in a giant ugly shirt.
Posted by: Jesse Raleigh | Dec 18, 2006 2:43:31 PM
Sweetheart, it sounds like you need an authentic www.teesmybody.com t-shirt!!!
Posted by: Alexander the Great | Dec 18, 2006 5:04:15 PM
I hear ya! When I started working for Splunk I refused to stand at our trade show booth giving demos if I had to wear a men's tshirt. I bought women's cut shirts and get tons of woman at shows like Interop, JavaOne, LISA and LinuxWorld who love them.
This is our current shirt (lovely photo of me at LISA in DC this month.) http://gallery.splunk.com/d/2433-2/lisa+06+160.jpg
Kathie, send me your address, I'll gladly mail you a shirt!
Posted by: Christine | Dec 18, 2006 5:27:59 PM
Funny, I was thinking about the same topic last night, though with somewhat different conclusions.
As an attendee at Seattle's Mind Camp 3.0 last month, I got a women's t-shirt provided by one of the conference sponsors, Google. It is a size "XL"; I am a size 10. I couldn't even begin to squeeze into this shirt, which, it turns out, fits my size 6 teenage nextdoor neighbor perfectly.
That's quite a message Google is sending to women -- that a size 6 woman is not just large, but "extra large."
Posted by: Karen Anderson | Dec 19, 2006 12:16:50 AM
This reminds me the JasperReports T-shirt. Which I received in late 2004. It was XL, and I am 5'7'. So, that was used by my father. He is also short though. He used to wear it while going to bed.
Posted by: Adeel Ansari | Dec 19, 2006 2:09:19 AM
I couldn't agree with you more. It's weird enough often being the only female in the room, and not getting a t-shirt when all the guys do makes me feel unwelcome. Most stylin' women wear fitted tees, not boxy ones down to their knees. The worst is when its a more serious gift for speaking at a conference and all the guys get nice jackets and there isn't anything that comes even close to fitting.
I know that men who look good in a size Small have the same problem.
Posted by: Tonya Engst | Dec 19, 2006 10:51:15 AM
I have the same t-shirt size problem when it comes to band t-shirts. Everytime I got to a concert. I'd have to settle for either a very large XL or the way-too-tight baby doll shirt. Why isn't there anything in between? Why don't people every make size SMALL or a Large Baby Doll. I'll even try a medium but most bands don't even make Mediums!!
Posted by: Emily Y. | Dec 19, 2006 1:01:24 PM
(psst.. Memo TO Ms. Sierra FROM tech companies: Thats hot!, we tech companies don't sleep in anything either)
Posted by: Anonymous Coward | Dec 19, 2006 5:38:08 PM
I didnt know this much thinking went into T-shirts but I will say this that there is something about a woman in one of my XL t-shirts with nothing else on that makes any company stand out. I didnt read all 70 plus posts to see if that was said before ....
http://sms100.blogspot.com/
Posted by: Tom Bailey | Dec 19, 2006 5:51:34 PM
Excellent insight, we take our tshirts seriously too! We stock womens S thru L and men's S thru XXXL so everyone can have something that fits! We are also not against doing 3 or 4, 3 color designs if it makes the tshirt something worth wearing. I also do not allow the URL on any place on the outside of the garment or item.
Posted by: Koshi | Dec 19, 2006 7:16:12 PM
People, c'mon - it's a free T-shirt. Surely you don't turn up naked, expecting to be supplied clothes at the event? If the free T doesn't fit / look good / whatever, just don't wear it! Hell, don't even grab it - less crap to lose on the way home. At $2000 a time to get in, these companies can afford to buy their advertising anyway...
Also, I don't understand the thing about making employees feel valued by giving them T-shirts. I'd be bloody insulted to be honest - how about they pay me my wages instead, and I'll pick out my own clothes? Generally, you're either passionate about your job or you're not - no amount of T-shirts are going to make me love a job that I hate. If you're not passionate about your job, then change your job...
Posted by: Reality Bites | Dec 20, 2006 4:59:28 AM
Some other people in the Java world thought of the women when they made T-shirts to give at Javapolis 2006.
Look here:
http://www.javablackbelt.com/press/jbbpinktee.jpg
[Insert haughty laugh by me, their Marketing Manager who knows there are loads of women in this world who should be "rekinized!"]
Posted by: Trish Passarelli | Dec 20, 2006 9:40:33 AM
Just thought of the power of imperfections as I was trolling through iStockphoto. The reason so much clip art and stock photography looks like such CRAP is that it looks waaaaaay too posed and phoney.
What's a presenter or blogger to do? Find something that goes way beyond the typical, gratuitous image — something with an extreme angle or tight close-up, or something that is a metaphor for what you’re trying to express, OR MAYBE don't use a picture at all, but use text in a big, graphic way. (OR pay Kathy a lot of money to do cool, edgy graphics for you!)
Posted by: John Windsor | Dec 20, 2006 10:30:26 AM
I have the exact same gripe. Every conference I attend guarantees me bringing back three or four XL shirts that I give to my coworkers or to my boyfriend. Some of us are size small! And female! Not all of us are either 6'4" or weight 300 pounds and have a gut large enough to warrant mumu shirts.
Posted by: Rebecca | Dec 20, 2006 6:00:22 PM
Clearly you've struck a cord with this topic! Thanks for making the point...
If you are looking for some team-building with all those XXL shirts that don't fit anyone, have a decorating contest! We used some extra boring Microsoft shirts as a holiday decorating contest for some cool prize one year, and we had 20+ people participate... it allowed for creativity, humor and fun for our tech team.
Posted by: Jenn | Dec 21, 2006 7:22:23 AM
Ooooh. Good point. We give away T shirts to candidates that attend admissions afternoons for our Computer Science department and I've got in a range of sizes but nothing which is girl specific. I'll get a bunch made up.
Posted by: Rob Mies | Dec 21, 2006 10:38:01 AM
Kathy;
We'll be at EclipseCon in March. Don't know if you'll be around, but any gals that are will be finding that we love our ladies when it comes to t-shirts. Non-sleepwear sizes available! If we can get one into your hands, we'll take you up on your offer to give these cottony billboards a spin on your blog. Great post.
Best,
Jens
Posted by: Jens E | Dec 21, 2006 1:12:04 PM
Think outside the box...or in this case, the shirt and just don't wear one if you don't want to hide the fact that you have breasts; trust me, people will notice, well maybe not those at java one (unless you have a "JIT" tattoo on them or if they are of an extra large "heap").
Seriously, I never gave a second thought to conference shirts. Couldn't you just wash it 2-3 times in extra hot water?
Posted by: Mindstorm | Dec 21, 2006 6:21:04 PM
Hear hear!
I'm a 6'2" guy, but most of the t-shirts that gets handed out are ridiculous even on me. (I don't think my 5'2" wife even considers if any of the conference shirts are worth looking at :-) ).
Some time ago I was going to make t-shirts for something and asked a local t-shirt printer what sizes people usually get (thinking he'd have a better sample than me asking a few friends and around the office).
He wrote back that most just orders all XL! Come on!
- ask
Posted by: Ask Bjørn Hansen | Dec 23, 2006 3:40:34 PM
One nice thing about large tshirts is that they are more easily hacked than small ones. Want a pillowcase, not a tshirt? You can do that. Want a sexy little sleeves top? That can be done, too with a little effort with scissors and sewing machine.
Posted by: Lynoure | Dec 25, 2006 6:19:43 AM
I have the same problem but won't complain about stuff that is free. What I do find annoying is when you have to wear the things. I volunteer at the local zoo. They have over 600 volunteers, we pay for the shirts we are supposed to wear and WAY more than half the volunteers are women. Yet the shirts only come in mens sizes. I also have a safari style vest to wear and end up folding all the extra t-shirt up under the vest. That isn't possible with the sweatshirts I am wearing now because it is in the 30's here.
I had a similar problem at my previous job when I joined a volunteer event they did and again all the shirts were huge [we won't discuss the horrible yellow color].
Posted by: Julie | Dec 26, 2006 6:11:54 PM
I'm a guy. I'm 5'9" and about 150 lbs. It's hard for me to find a shirt. Most of my tech friends/coworkers are in the same boat. Please: more smalls and mediums for men. We don't all weigh 300 lbs.
The second problem I have with t-shirts is that I want ones that are long, but not wide. It seems I can only find both or neither. Sigh.
And thirdly: why does sizing vary so much between manufacturers? I usually take a medium. Once in a while I take a small. A couple years ago, the shirts my company supplied for us to work a corporate event were so small, a large barely fit me.
Posted by: Paul Schreiber | Dec 27, 2006 12:59:38 AM
They do think about form-fitting clothing for women.If they're hird to smile at the booth, that is.
I did give my old shirts to homeless folks.
Thanks for representin'
Posted by: heather | Dec 27, 2006 1:26:30 AM
I love this posting and am bummed that I'm late to the party! Creating cool tees that both men and women enjoy wearing and fit well can be challenge.
We try to make this a little bit easier at CustomInk.com by showing photos of real people in each of a products' sizes in our online sizing guides.
For example, here's a sizing guide for an American Apparel Girly T
http://www.customink.com/items/sizing/30000_lineup/standard.htm
As you can tell from the lineup this brand doesn't work for all body types, but if most of the women in your audience like their tees fitted then it's a great choice. Of course, if AA doesn't work for you then there are dozens of other girls styles to choose from.
We have sizing guides just like this one for hundreds of our products (t-shirts, sweats, etc) on CustomInk.com.
Browse 100s of products here: http://www.customink.com/cink/r.jsp
then click "sizing guides" to see the line ups.
One last thought, if you don't feel you have the creative juices to make a hip fashionable shirt on your own, why not ask your customers/fans to design the shirt for you. Just direct them to CustomInk.com and have them share the design they make with you when they're done.
Having a participatory t-shirt design contests like this one can create some Extremely Passionate Users!
Posted by: Sean Murphy | Dec 27, 2006 8:39:08 AM
i agree. i have a wardrobe of 'sleep-in' t-shirts
Posted by: nandini | Dec 28, 2006 5:04:18 AM
Hey Kathy, Microsoft has started giving out Women's sized shirts at their conferences. Besides, I don't think you need to worry about looking good in a shirt designed for women - you are Fine!
Posted by: Manoj | Dec 29, 2006 11:35:38 PM
Thanks for blogging this. Although many girls can pull it off, I have to admit that my breasts are just too small for me to ever look good in unfitted t-shirts - they just make me look like I don't care about my appearance. I'm always envious of the white-on-black nerdy quote t-shirts and other t-shirts that apeal to my geeky side because they usually don't come as fitted tees. Hopefully this will change! (Come on Jinx.com!)
-K
Posted by: Kath | Jan 1, 2007 1:53:41 AM
Andrew, supplying only men's shirts is NOT gender neutral. It is in fact the complete OPPOSITE of being gender neutral. How, exactly, can you see excluding one gender as gender neutral? As a rule the average man doesn't wear women's clothes, yet all too many of them think it's okay to expect women to just wear men's clothes. News flash: they're not the same! If you're not including women's sizes, you're excluding them. You can try and weasel out of it through laziness, but you're taking a stand one way or the other.
Many people commenting obviously get it, but I must say I'm really disappointed by how many people are still responding with rampant misogyny. Yes it's just a t-shirt, but to reduce it to only that is to completely miss the larger point. Worse still, this isn't about vanity as some people seem to think.
I think perhaps some people just underestimate what an insignificant thing this is to do. As a screenprinter, I can tell you it's no big deal. Will it increase costs? Absolutely. Will it increase costs to the point where t-shirts are no longer an affordable promo? Almost never. There is simply no excuse not to cater for all your customers - they deserve better, and they shouldn't stand for it (and nor should they have to settle for a men's small - men's smalls are for small men... women are not small men). If it ends up costing more to print your shirts then that's the price you pay. Do it properly or don't do it at all.
(even if you just want to half-ass it there are options for women's shirts that cost no more than men's and are at least a step in the right direction)
Posted by: Lewis | Jan 2, 2007 8:05:47 AM
I've designed some conference tshirts for the Drupal Conference. We're an open source project, so our situation is quite different, but here's my experience:
- Avoid making conference/year-specific tshirts, because they go out of date too soon and only serve as mementos. Except for re-occuring events, it is much more useful to have a generic "Product" tshirt than a "Product Conference" one. You can keep any extra stock for later events, sell them online or even offer to send one to anyone who pays for postage. People who can't come to (expensive!) conferences might still want one.
- Avoid long text, URLs and graphs. Stick to a simple logo that is aesthetically pleasing and that people can actually wear in public without looking too odd or branded. Sponsor logos are the best way to kill any t-shirt.
- Make sure you get silk screening. The colors are more vivid, it lasts longer and you can print light colors on dark fabric, which allows for much nicer designs.
- Be sure to get high quality, heavy t-shirts rather than flimsy see-throughs. It might be cheaper to buy them separate even. You don't want to have a wet-tshirt contest with geeks, and conferences can be sweaty in the summer :). Plus, it increases the chance that it'll be worn visibly, rather than under a sweater or coat.
- If you can pull it off, get a design that looks unique and interesting, even to non-techies. At DrupalCon brussels, we had the following t-shirt:
http://flickr.com/photos/dries-knapen/250303495/
http://acko.net/drupalcon-t-shirt-kleuren-uitproberen (close up)
I estimate 90-95% of all attendees bought one. Many people bought an extra one for a friend. We made sure to ask for preferred sizes in advance, and had a good selection of sizes and colors, including small and medium women's t-shirts. We also had an exclusive run of pink ones mostly for the organisers and volunteers. Since then, they've been popping up in random Drupal-related Flickr pictures. People like these t-shirts and still wear them.
On the other hand, I have a whole set of conference t-shirts gathering dust in my closet, waiting for the next time I have to paint or do other messy things, or being used as rags. At most, I'll wear them under a thick sweater. Moral of the story: if you want t-shirts, do it well, and it will pay off in the long run.
PS: Another great conference trick is lanyards... they are convenient and people re-use them all the time. Plus, whenever someone takes a picture of someone wearing it, your logo is visible :).
Posted by: Steven Wittens | Jan 23, 2007 4:46:19 PM
"The low-fat doughnut is the Holy Grail of the food industry. Food companies have been able to take most of the fat out of everything from cheese to Twinkies. But no one has succeeded in designing a marketable doughnut that dips below the federal low-fat threshold of three grams per serving. Doughnuts typically range from eight grams of fat for a glazed French cruller to more than double that for a cake-like doughnut."
*Holey Donuts!(tm) Frosted ring donuts were lab tested at an astonishing two point eight (2.8) grams of total fat per donut..Now you know why we have been the darling of the celebrity community for so long and finally the secret is out for all to enjoy!
Q. I see other donuts advertised as Trans Fat Free. What makes Holey Donuts!(tm) different?
A. There is a huge difference between Low Fat and only being Trans Fat free. Many donut companies are jumping on the trans fat free bandwagon but those donuts are still deep fried and loaded with fat and calories. Trans Fat free only means those donuts don't contain harmful trans fats, which is good but that's only half the story.Only Holey Donuts!(tm) has a unique cooking process that avoids deep frying altogether, creating a truly "low fat" donut and we have always had zero Trans Fats even before it was so chic.
After all, total fat is what makes you fat.
Q. Does Holey Donuts!(tm) use artificial sweeteners?
A. No, we do not use any artificial sweeteners or fat substitutes like Olestra. So our donuts are healthy and safe whether your pregnant or just concerned about what's in the foods you enjoy.
Q.Are your Donuts "Low Carb"?
A. Our donuts have carbs just like any ordinary donut. The goal at Holey Donuts!(tm) was not to make a diet donut, but to make a better donut. As donut lovers ourselves, we always hated that we had to limit our enjoyment of donuts because they were just so fattening. We set out to cook our donuts differently and as a natural side effect they happened to be Zero Trans Fats and have a total fat between two point eight grams(2.8) and three point eight grams per donut (3.8), whereas the average donut (even those that are trans fat free) can have as much as twenty (20) grams of total fat per donut. Our donuts are included on some of the countries largest and most successful weight loss/food delivery programs across America.
Q. I've had other "low fat " products that taste terrible. Do you donuts taste low fat?
A. That's the most amazing thing about our donuts. There is nothing low fat about the taste!They taste like any other donut but without the greasy aftertaste or that heavy feeling that stays with you for hours after eating fried foods.
Q. What is this secret cooking process? Do you bake your donuts?
A. Actually, if you just try to bake a donut you'd get something like bread. Holey Donuts!(tm) took five years to develop. Everything had to be reinvented from the moisture content in the mix to the frostings. Obviously somethings must remain "trade secret" but if it were that simple everyone would be doing it. Our process includes using the best ingredients, skilled bakers who cut every donut by hand and a large team of specially trained "donut finishers" who artfully hand frost ,fill and decorate every donut. It's a time consuming process that accounts for a lot of the expense in every dozen Holey Donuts!(tm).
"Imagine a donut-like-thing that would be good for you. Sounds too hard to believe, really"
Roger Z. Sacramento Ca
The American Baker's Association said that making a low-fat donut is like "exceeding the speed of light -- not possible." 2004-11-2
The low-fat doughnut, declares Len Heflich, an industry executive at the American Bakers
Association, is "not possible."
*A single glazed Krispy Kreme contains a whopping 12 grams of Fat! Other Traditional varieties of yeast doughnuts---pack 300 to 390 calories and nine to twenty grams of harmful fat! *Nutrition Action Healthletter,Jan-Feb,2004 by Jayne Hurley
*Compare that to a Holey Donut! which has less than 3.03g of total fat!
go there holeydonuts.net
holeydonuts.net
These doughnuts are honestly the best we have ever had. You should see my desk right now...its like chum in the water with sharks every where! Thank you so much for sending them, a real treat for all of us. Keep in touch!
Alfred Smith
LEHMAN BROTHERS INVESTMANT BANKING NYC
Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:30:59 -0400
Bottom of Form 1
Man they were awesome!!! I shared them with the other 70 people in my
department so that means there are 58 people wishing, lol.
They are good, I am a fan already!!
Thank you,
Christopher Alizio
Product Quality Specialist
QVC Studio Park
484-XXX-XXXX
Name : Meghan
Email Address : mghen@sgcib.com
Telephone : 212 92 Madison St. Hoboken, NJ
Comments :
I completely enjoyed receiving your donuts through the ZoneChefs program. It made my day when I would see that I had a Holey Donut on the menu. If you
Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:45:43 -0500
I love your donuts! I was introduced to Holey Donuts through ZoneChefs Delivery, and so far I've tried Boston Cream, Lemon, Chocolate Frosted and Raspberry. They are all amazing! It's hard to believe they're low fat. It sounds silly, but I really look forward to the days I find a Holey Donut in my Zone meal bag. They're so yummy, I feel like I'm cheating on my diet. Thanks for the treat!
Dale
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name : Denise
Email Address : denitologa@aol.com
Telephone : (310) xxx xxxx
Comments :
I had your donuts on the zone chef program.Do you have any stores in the L A area? What about when orders across country? Can I make an order for donuts that is not wholesale? How can I get my local grocery to carry your product? I love them!
Mon, 7 Nov 2006 05:54:03 -0500 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name : stephanie
----------------
Comments : Hello: I read about Holey Donuts and fell in love with the idea !! I checked out your website and just think this concept is a great idea ! I enjoy donuts so much, but can only eat one (two, at the most) on any given day due to the high sugar and fat content. I think this is a great idea to reduce the fat and still have an enjoyable eating experience.
Regards, Douglas Rittenhouse
# posted by Anonymous : 8:16 AM
You have got to try the coconut cream pie donut, its out of this world . i have to eat one every day, well hey it's low fat why not?
# posted by Mary Klien : 12:23 PM
... The Donuts are excellent.
# posted by Joseph C : 12:41 PM
my wife brought a bag of these home for a test feast. They are actually very good, especially the coconut cream
# posted by J.D : 9:14 PM
I think that the idea of a low fat donut is great.
# posted by Terri S : 9:49 AM
Hi Holey donuts is the best Wow IM so blown away by these donuts the best one to my taste is the coconut cream pie now hell yeah i can eat more donuts and i wont look like one!!!!
# posted by Gerri: 3:13 PM
We all know that anything that is is delicious must be loaded with fat. These Donuts are really tasty.
# posted by Anonymous : 4:52 PM
I tried a few holey donuts and I think there holey incredible :) so much better then Dunkin Donuts.
# posted by J Katz : 11:03 AM
Comments :
Thank you! These are a fabulous invention. I work from home and my co-workers are based in Colorado Springs CO. They are wondering if Holey Donuts are being sold there . Thanks a million! Brenna
Posted by: K.JK.L | Jan 25, 2007 11:12:26 AM
FLOUS MOBILE PHONES STORE .
We are mobile phones wholesalers.We deals on all brands and models of
mobile phones such as Nokia,Motorola,Samsung,Sony
Ericsson,Sagem,Nextel,Sidekick II,Sprint,Ipods, Laptops, Mp3 players
and many more at very cheap prices.We are using this medium to look
for buyers of mobile phones.Do kindly reply back if you are interested
and as you do you will be glad you do.you can reach us through our
email address
Flousmobilestores@mail.com
Flousmobilestores@gmail.com
Flousmobilestores@inmail24.com
WE ARE SELLING ALL KIND OF MOBILE PHONES SUCH AS:
Palm Zire 72 PDA-$100
Palm Tungsten E PDA-$60
Palm Tungsten T5 PDA-$80
Sony CLIÉ PEG-UX50 PDA-$150
Sharp Mobilon HC-4100 PDA-$100
HP iPAQ Pocket PC HX4700 PD-$200
HP iPAQ Pocket PC hx4705 PDA-$160
Palm LifeDrive Mobile Manager PDA-$100
HP Ipaq HX2700 Pocket PC ..........$300
Sony PEG-SJ33 Color CLIÉ Handheld PDA-$120
HP Ipaq HX4700 Pocket PC -$200
HP Ipaq HX2700 Pocket PC ..........$300
o2 XDAIIS integrated pocket PC & GSM Phone-$330
o2 XDAII MINI integrated Pocket PC & GSM phone-$300
Acer cs-5530 digital camera....................$150
Canon ixus 700 digital camera..................$200
Canon ixus 750 digital camera..................$160
Canon ixus i zoom digital camera (jet black)...$210
Canon ixus i zoom digital camera (Sahara)......$200
Canon power shot s80 digital camera............$220
Casio exilim ex-s500 digital camera (orange, ).$230
Digital blue qx5 digital microscope............$170
Fuji film finepix f10 digital camera...........$150
Nikon d2x digital camera (body only)...........$140
Olympus fe-100 digital camera..................$150
Panasonic DVD-LS5 DVD Player......$150
Mintek MDP-5860 DVD Player........$190
Panasonic DMR-E50S DVD Recorder...$190
Samsung DVD-L200 DVD Player...... $150
W/xbox 360 hard drive,
Xbox 360 wireless controller,
Xbox 360 faceplate,
Xbox 360 headset,
Xbox 360 component hd-av cable,
Xbox live silver membership
(xbox360) $260 per-unit buy 2 and take one free
play station 1... $120
play station 2 ...$130
Play Station 3 60GB $220
play station 3...$200
x_box 360....$260
GARMIN 396...$200
Game boy latext edition......$110
Sony Ericsson K700i for......$130
Sony Ericsson k750i for......$140
Sony Ericsson W800i for......$150
Sony Ericsson W900i for......$160
Sony Ericsson S700i for......$140
Sony Ericsson P900 for.......$140
Sony Ericsson P910i for......$150
Sony Ericsson Z1010 for......$160
Nokia 6230 for.........$130
Nokia 6230ifor.........$140
Nokia 6260 for.........$130
Nokia 9300 for.........$130
Nokia 9500 for.........$140
Nokia 6230 for.........$130
Nokia 8800 for.........$140
Nokia 6680 for.........$100
Nokia 6682 for.........$110
Nokia 7650 for.........$120
Nokia E61 for.........$145
Nokia E60 for.........$140
Nokia E70 for.........$150
Nokia N70 for.........$150
Nokia N80 for.........$160
Nokia N90 for.........$170
Nokia N91 for.........$180
Nokia N92 for.........$190
Nokia N93 for.........$230
Nokia N95 for.........$400
Motorola Razor V3 for..........$130
Motorola Ravor V6 for..........$140
Motorola Slvr V8 for...........$140
Motorola A1000 for...........$150
Motorola Mpx 220 for.......... $120
Motorola Mpx 300 for.......... $140
Qtek 8100 $125
QTEK 8300 $145
Qtek 8310 $155
Qtek 8500 $165
Qtek 8600 $225
Qtek 9600 $270
I-Mate SP5.........$140
I-Mate JAM 128MB...$210
I-Mate JAM.........$190
I-Mate JAMin.......$220
I-Mate Smartflip QB...$250
I-Mate K-Jam QuadBand..$240
I-Mate JASJAR Quadband..$350
I-Mate Smartflip QB......$250
TomTom Mobile 5 $290
TomTom Navigator 5 Bluetooth GPS $270
TomTom Mobile GPS for Smartphones $260
TomTom GO GPS Car Navigation System $280
Nextel i860 $100
Nextel i870 $140
Nextel i930 $160
Treo 650 $140
Treo 700w $160
Sidekick 1 $100
Sidekick 2 $120
Sidekick 3 $150
Send us an email to our email our below:
Flousmobilestores@mail.com
Flousmobilestores@gmail.com
Flousmobilestores@inmail24.com
Posted by: Flous Tan | Jan 27, 2007 7:16:46 PM
Hi Kathy, we just printed our very first batch of Planypus tees! We have all sizes, mens and womens, in american apparel (but of course). If you let us know your address we'll send you one!
thanks
Posted by: Yan | Jan 29, 2007 12:12:50 PM
I cannot then add, that one of the reasons why I accepted job at Red Hat (not the only one, sure ;-)) was that I would really love to get that fedora. Oh well -- they haven't got my size (which would XL or XXL). Oh well :-(
Posted by: Matej | Mar 26, 2007 5:43:50 PM
I think you make some great points Kathy. Quite a lot of business comes from the conference market and I always preach to them that it's neither hard not expensive with a bit of foresight and planning to have a range of tees available that fit and look good on the entire cross-section of the audience.
Danni.
Posted by: Queen of Suburbia T-Shirts | Apr 27, 2007 3:08:07 AM
This is Great! I have posted some related sites over here: [url=http://todaytop10.com
Posted by: guanhua88 | Apr 29, 2007 8:48:36 PM
WE ARE WHOLESALERS OF MOBILE PHONES. PHONES IN STOCK ARE ALL NOKIA ,ALL SAMSUNG ,ALL MOTOROLA,ALL SONY ERICSON. Nokia n95/n90/n92/n93/n70/n75/8800/6260 are all in stock now. at avery cheap rate contact for more info.pjjstore@yahoo.com./pj2store@yahoo.com.philip james.
NOKIA N95.....................................$255
NOKIA 8800 AT JUST ..................$180
sony ericsson W800i is $180
NEXTEL I860 AT JUST ...............$100
NEXTEL I930 AT JUST .................$130
NOKIA 8850 SPECIAL EDITION-- US$160
NOKIA 8850 GOLD EDITION-- US$170
NOKIA N92 AT JUST ....................$200
NOKIA 3310 AT JUST ..................$35
NOKIA 6230 AT JUST ................$120
Sony Ericsson K500i, $100
Sony Ericsson S700i $140
Sony Ericsson: Z1010 $150
nokia 6630 at just $130
samsung E700 AT JUST $140
SAMSUNG E715 AT JUST $140
SAMSUNG E 800 AT JUST $150
NOKIA 9300 AT JUST $180
NOKIA 7280 AT JUST $130,
NOKIA 7610, AT JUST $120
nokia n90 is $180
nokia n91 at just $210
nokia 9200 is $170
Thanks for your intend patronage.
396971
Posted by: philip james | May 28, 2007 12:12:38 PM
We have all brands of Mobile Phones,Ipods,Sidekicks,Nextels phone,Laptops for sell at cheap and affordable prices, they ranges from Nokia/Samsung/LG/Sony Ericsson/Motorola/Alcatel/panasonic With Bluetooth, all Brands and Models of Nextel Phones, we want you to get back to us with your quote so that we can begin a good business relationship. Note they are all Brand New T2 Euro specs, unlocked, no operator logo, come in their original sealed box, With 1 year international warranty from the manufacturer, English & Spanish manual, Finland made. We want to assure you that you will never regret buying from us because the delivery will be to your doorstep via FedEx Courier service.And a valid Tracking number shall be sent to you upon acknowledgement of your payment. Kindly acknowledge the reciept of our mail and get back to us at
Email....clifforfgleason@hotmail.com
geoferystores@hotmail.com
mobileseller@hotmail.com
demcoltd@gawab.com
solutionmobiles@netzero.com
NEW NOKIA N95 AT JUST $300USD
NEW NOKIA N93 AT JUST $230USD
NOKIA N90 AT JUST $200usd
NOKIA N91 AT JUST $200usd
NOKIA N92 AT JUST $220usd
NOKIA N70 AT JUST $150usd
NOKIA N80 AT JUST $170usd
NOKIA 8800 AT JUST $160usd
NOKIA 9500 AT JUST $200usd
NOKIA 9300 AT JUST $180usd
PDA HP IPAQ Pocket PC hx4700,SD, ...169.00USD
Palmtop PDA Pocket PC Bluetooth WiFi...175USD
PDA POCKET PC CELULAR 200MHz WiFi......210USD
iPaq rx3417 Pocket PC Bluetooth WiFi....300USD
PDA HP iPaq Hx2750 Pocket PC Wifi ...190USD
PDA Acer n311 Samsung400MHz 3,7 .......200USD
FOR SELL SIDEKICK II MOBILE PHONE AT JUST $100usd
FOR SELL SIDEKICK III MOBILE PHONE AT JUST $150usd
NEXTEL i870 AT JUST $100usd
NEXTEL i860 AT JUST $110usd
NEXTEL i930 AT JUST $130usd
MOTOROLA RAZR V3 AT JUST $140usd
PINK MOTOROLA RAZR V3 AT JUST $140usd
MOTOROLA RAZR V3X AT JUST $150usd
MOTOROLA MPX 220 AT JUST $140usd
MOTOROLA MPX 300 AT JUST $180usd
SONY ERICSSON W800i AT JUST $160usd
SONY ERICSSON w600i AT JUST $160usd
SONY ERICSSON W900i AT JUST $200usd
SONY ERICSSON K700i AT JUST $150usd
SONY ERICSSON K750i AT JUST $160usd
SONY ERICSSON S700i AT JUST $160usd
SONY ERICSSON P910i AT JUST $160usd
SONY ERICSSON P990 AT JUST $200usd
SAMSUNG D600 AT JUST $200usd
SAMSUNG D500 AT JUST $180usd
Brand New Qtek 9000 .................................$150
Brand New Qtek 9100 .................................$180
Brand New Qtek 8100..................................$135
Brand New I-MATE Smartflip ....... $140
Brand New I-MATE JAMin ......... $200
Brand New I-MATE K-JAM ......... $180
Brand New I-MATE SP5 ......... $150
Brand New I-MATE SP5m ......... $155
APPLE IPOD PRICE LIST
Apple iPod nano Player 2GB -- $100 usd
Apple iPod nano Player 4GB -- $130 usd
Apple iPod nano Player 6GB -- $160usd
Apple ipod nano Media player 8GB---$200 usd
X BOX 360 PRICE LIST
Xbox 360 Core System -- US$200usd
Xbox 360 Platinum SystemUS$190usd
Xbox 360 Platinum Bundle Console -- US$230usd.
PLAYSTATIONS
playstation 1 ....120usd
playstation 2...150usd
playstation 3 ...200usd
LAPTOP
All Toshiba laptops
Toshiba Satellite PRO L10 $320
Toshiba M200 $500
Dell Laptops
Dell Latitude D600 $290
Dell Latitude D500 t $200
Dell Inspiron 6000 $350
Sony Laptops
Sony VAIO VGN-T1 $680
Sony VAIO VGN-FS315 $420
Sony VAIO VGN-S3 $450
Sony VAIO VGN-TX1 $840
Sony VAIO VGN-FS215 $ 310
Sony VAIO VGN-S4 $470
APPLE IBOOK 1GHZ COMBO WITH 12 INCH DISPLAY--------------$300
HP PAVILION LAPTOP-- ZV5213EA-----------$300
NOTE: ALL PHONES ARE IN FACTORY SEALED BOXES, WITH
CHARGERS, ACCESSORIES, MANUALS INCLUDED.
DELIVERY:24 hours(to USA AND CANADA)
49 hours other than USA AND CANADA
SHIPMENT:FEDEX
reciept of our mail and get back to us at
Email....clifforfgleason@hotmail.com
geoferystores@hotmail.com
mobileseller@hotmail.com
demcoltd@gawab.com
solutionmobiles@netzero.com
Posted by: John water | Jun 13, 2007 10:30:40 PM
Buy:Nokia,E50,E60,E61i,E70,N70,N71,N72,N73,N75,N80,N90,N91,N92,N93,N95,N97,6600,6680,8800,8800i,9300,9500,D500,D600,D700,D800 D900,Motorola Razr V3,V3i, Nextel i930s.High Model Of Apple iphone iPod phones,Treo 700W,LG Fusic LX550,New T-obile Sidekick3/4 Phones,PS3 GAME/Play Stations 3 Game And All Kind Of Computers Laptops And Manymore At Very Low Price.Ok For More Informations Please Contact The Following Blow:
Email: mobilehouseltd@eyou.com
Email: mobilehouseltd@eyou.com
Company Sales Manager
Mrs.Lisa Laffoon
Thanks And God Bless.
Posted by: Mrs.Lisa Laffoon | Jul 7, 2007 8:05:26 AM
Asid O'Niells Sports
nizamabad, zafarwal road, Sialkot, 51310, Pakistan
P.O.BOX # 2437
Phone: +92-52-3543543
Email: hurlers@skt.comsats.net.pk
: asidone@skt.comsats.net.pk
Web : www.asidone.com
Dear Gentlemen,
We are manufacturer and exporters of all type of Leather clothing , leather jackets,
Leather gloves, and all sorts of sports wears, t-shirts, polo shirts, sweat shirts, shorts etc.
we have been dealing in this field for the last many years and gained much experience during this period. We have installed the modern machinery and using
The latest techniques in our manufacturing units.
Our prices are more competitive then the others of our exporters and we also take the guarantee of our quality products.
You are requested to direct your trade inquiries towards us for price quotes and possible free sample for your study and evaluation.
With keen interest we look forward for your prompt and positive reply.
Best Regards
Asid O'Niells Sports
Posted by: shamas | Jul 13, 2007 10:18:26 PM
Dear Sir/Madam,
We at "Pak Global Trader" manufacturer and export many types of sportswear including:-
T-Shirts
Baseball Uniforms
Soccer Kit
Basketball Kit
Jeans
Pro Jerseys
Polo Shirts
Rugby Shirts
Casual Wear
Track Suits
Mesh Shorts
Athletic Strips
Martial-Arts belts and uniforms
Trousers and Caps
We have installed the machinery necessary to manufacturer the above high quality products, including any labels and/or embroidery required on the garment. Customer satisfaction has been obtained through not compromising on quality during the manufacturing process and obtaining high quality materials for our products.
We have been working with buyers from our many customers for a number years and the feedback we have gained is one of complete satisfaction with our products quality the prices and delivery times.
If you are interested in any of out products please notify us using the contact information below and we will send samples, as per your specifications, allowing you to verify the quality of our products and service.
We feel confident that out products will meet any inspection criteria.
We hope to hear from you soon.
With Best regards,
Marketing Department
Pak Global Trader
Khadim Ali Road,
Kotli Behram,
Sialkot-51310 Pakistan.
Tel. 0092-52-4294418
Fax. 0092-52-4294419
www.pak-global.com
Posted by: Adeel Ali | Aug 11, 2007 5:27:21 AM
I love the T-shirts
they are really beautiful.
Posted by: Ronald | Aug 21, 2007 5:07:23 AM
I hate it too! The shirts don't ever fit and they don't even treat us like we exist. More on shirt sizes: http://womensbaseballshirt.blogspot.com/
Posted by: mills lane | Aug 29, 2007 11:13:20 PM


